After the BRAC

Hello All,

Having gone through the various BRAC-related articles in this great forum as well as on the af.mil site, I just wondered;

1) Will the future line up of the surviving ANG/AFRC units operating Block-30s be a mix of both "Small Inlet" and "Big Inlet" planes??

It seems to become wide spread in most of the Block-30 units - fx. 9 "VA" Vipers ("Small Inlet") going to the 482 FW / 93 FS in Florida - -an all "Big Inlet" unit??

2) Allthough detailed, is this BRAC list just "paper assignments" getting to look different in the real world??

The 52 (T)FW at Spangdahlem did mix the Block-30 force years ago before setteling on "Big Inlet" Block-30s before the Block-50s arrived. That also happened at Ramstein AB, they even flew a mix of both Block-30 variants as well as Block-40s before moving the -40s to Aviano.

3) Would it be a fair assumption to say that there are still some bigger differences between the "Small Inlet" Block-30s and the "Big Inlet" Block-30s. Allthough equipped (more or less) the same way, I belive one of the reasons at Spang to consolidate on one type of Inlet, was the differing flight characteristics.

Even after the whole fleet of Block-40/42s and -50/52s have been CCIPed they will not be mixed in the same squardons, I belive!??

Our unit flies with both "big" and "small" mouth Block 30s. We currently have five small mouth aircraft. They are assigned to the 150th DSE and are mostly used for joint service testing. We only deploy with our big mouth vipers. And at that we usually try to go with an all 87 force as they have two extra flare canns.

My guess is that units won't be limited to one inlet, but would be seperated as best as possible.

Hello Taco44 - Yes I know about the DSE part of Your unit and I have also thought about this seperation within a specific unit. This, however, seems a bit difficult to me with those units only getting fx. three "Small Inlet" -30s.

But maybe these will be used for training and proficiency flights only and, furthermore, while being older, the "Small Inlet" -30s would probably be the first to be retired and a new consolidation will take place - hence that some "Small Inlet" -30s will be gone in a few years compared to "only" 9 "Big Inlet" -30s so far.

What are the small mouth Block's lacking that gets them left behind at deployment time. Is the performance much different. Aside from the fact that you try to deploy with the '87 jets like you said and the last small mouth was in 86, right?

I am not a pilot, but from what I've been told, there is a very noticeable difference in performance. I know that many smallmouth vipers have been to war and served honorably. (DC, NY, MI ANG to list a few.) And yes, <a href="f-16_fighting_falcon_airframe-2044.html">86-0261</a> was the last production smallmouth Block 30.

That makes sense, how many hours do your jets have these days?

Our 5 smallmouths (4-85, 1-86) are relatively low hour (3,500-4,000) due to their test affiliation. Our bigmouths are a little higher (4,000-5,000). Our high flyer is <a href="f-16_fighting_falcon_airframe-2115.html">86-0332</a> at just under 5,200 hrs. Falcon STAR should allow them to hold up till we get our new jets.

My red rope in tech school went to the NMANG, Fitzgerald I think was his name. What do you mean by new Jets, goin back to 40's?

I wish...I know we would take them back in a heart beat. Our block 30s are finally starting to come along now. There is no news of us getting any new jets as of yet. I was just speculating as we have traditionally been the first guard unit to receive new toys. (First F-100 unit, first A-7 unit, first a-7 unit to get the LANA mod, first and only unit to receive block 40 vipers. Much to our demise though, as they were taken away to replace vipers crashed by active duty.) Whether it is our block 40s or the new JSF, we will welcome with open arms.

I think you are refering to a Fitzpatrick. A young redhead. Hasn't made a name for himself yet. Still has a lot to learn.

Yeah that's him, had plans of being a pilot someday. Good to see your jets progressing, I guess they were in worse shape when you got themj from whoever. Thats the block I'll be on if I go NYANG.

Taco44 - - as a Block-30 fan, what is wrong with those You have?? I think they are more capable with the SCUs, NVIS and Litening pods than the Block-40s but could, of cause, be in a different technical state when You got them!!

When we received our block 40s, they were only about a year or two old. Most had under 200 flt hours on them. Being a guard unit, we were able to keep the same crewchiefs on them and baby them for the 10 1/2 years we had them. They were emaculate and we had all the kinks worked out.

As far as our block 30s....where do I start. Well, they came from Cannon AFB from the 522d FS. At the time this was a squadron that never deployed so the other sqdns got the money. There is a very high turnover rate AD as far as crewchiefs are concerned, especially at that base. An AD crewchief doesn't have the luxury of spending years on end on a particular jet. At the time we got the jets, I felt there was a large number of young troops working (learning) the jet. As such, there has been a lot maintenance induced problems we have had to deal with. Along with these issues, the majority of the acft historical files for these jets were simply not there. This I fault their P&S guys. We had no data to analyze concerning maintenance trends for each specific acft. We have finally (after two years) got most of the bugs worked out and are starting to get good flying jets.

As far as which jet I prefer, I would have to go Block 40. The digital FLCS, beefed-up LG and airframe, and flight controls all make this a more maintenance friendly jet. I may be a little biased because of my experience, but I feel you just don't have the limitations that you do with the Block 30. Don't get me wrong. The Block 30 is a magnificent acft for what it is, but it is still limited. I would take a Block 40 with the new Sniper XR anyday.

Thanks Taco44 - -great info!! Would You be getting Snipers for the -30s any day soon now??

Concerning this mix of "small" and "big" inltes on the -30s - would it be a resonable thought to say that the rest of the "small inlet" Block-30s that remain in service would/could be re-fittet with the "big inlet"!!?? I would say that it would be no big problem to do so.They have the right engine to go with the larger air flow and - as far as I see it - it would be a minor mod replacing the inlet with the front wheel well.

Henrik- We should be getting Snipers for our 30s in the next couple of weeks or so. Our Avionics shop has already gone through all the training for them. Will be interested to see them on our jets. As far as a mod to swap NSI to MCID, I wouldn't bet money on it. As simple as it may seem, it would be a nightmare and cost a bundle. You would not only have tons of structural work to do, but you would have to reroute electrical, hydraulic, ecs, and pnuematic lines. EEEEEEEEEEKKKK!!!!!!!! There is enough of the bigmouths to go around without deploying the smallmouths if need to be. And like I've said before, the smallmouths have gone to war and served honorably.