2005 F-16 base closings (BRAC)

Does anyone know the latest on the proposed base closures for 2005? What Viper bases will they likely close and where will they move?

If you find out I am sure you are more in the know that most of us here. I have heard about Spangdahlem closing and not closing and the same for Aviano. Since the announcement of scalling back troups in europe, what is the chances of bases in the states closing? My guess is probably less than the over seas bases. From what I read about Korea it appeared that the bases closer to the DMZ have more of a chance of being moved south, as well as bringing some of the units back stateside. What does that mean for Korea? The polictal and economical ramifications to those areas will be great to be sure. What does that mean in regards to how the troups are treated by the locals? Who knows!

So your question is not as simple in it's self as one would hope. My guess is that what ever bases had a senator visit there within the last two years could very well be on the chopping block for shut-down or realignment. I experienced a base realignment process, I would rather avoid going through another one. Is my base on the list. I think so, where are we going to be moved? Turkey has been mentioned but there is some laws that the Turkish government has in place with our government regarding assets that are stationed there. I am sure the US government isn't ready to concide to those laws with a wing of airplanes yet. Where else could we go? There has been mention of moving the forces into former soviet block countries. My money would be on that one. Why? Because they want us there! Those countries economies would benifit greatly from a perminate US presence. Not to mention Russian chicks are hotties! Our unit made a visit to Poland recently and during that visit it was made very easy for us to operate in comparison to operation requirements in Germany. The hours flown were not restrictive, the disposal of our waste was simple in comparison, there are numerous other things that I am not thinking of at the moment.

So the answer to your question I believe will only come with watching the Fighter community, and keeping your ear to the ground.

IDCrewDawg wrote:Where else could we go? There has been mention of moving the forces into former soviet block countries. My money would be on that one. Why? Because they want us there! Those countries economies would benifit greatly from a perminate US presence.

Repositioning of forces to friendly countries further east (Hungary, Czech Rep., Poland, etc.) and maybe even some of the "stans" with mutual agreements, not just for fighters but "boots" as well, seems like the logical step. Those countries have seen the economic and political advantages a US military prescence had in Germany and Korea and are eager to duplicate it. It may not involve 100,000 troops but still, having even a modest US prescence (a fighter wing or tank division) and all the things that requires would do wonders for 'em IMHO. And in the years since the Iron Curtain rusted away, they've seen how sweet freedom is and how important it is that it be defended, even if it means having Vipers, Eagles, BUFFs, Bradleys, and ABRAMS conducting sorties in and over their lands (again...IMHO).

Hard to speculate now. They will keep the BRAC '05 list hush-hush as long as possible.....

I know the politicians are already starting to scramble in hopes to save "THEIR" installations.

For the "Official" word, check here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/

I know I'll be watching it closely.........
I don't want to find a new job!

I have heard from the PR-officer at Spangdahlem that Spangdahlem will be kept open for a long time, there is even an expansion of the base taking place, because the Air Force is pulling out of Rhein-Mainz Ab and a part of the traffic from their is coming to Spangdahlem and the other part is going to Ramstein.

Ramstein is also expanding and Aviano will also be kept open. I have even heard that they want to open a base in Poland!

The biggest changes will take place in Asia, there a lot of units will go away.
That's also the reason why South Korea is buying more F-15's.

In Europe there will be a lot of changes for the army, they will almost completely disappear from Germany.

In the US, I don't know it, I thought they wanted to create more "superbases" and close a lot of smaller bases.

This might result in some units to disappear. It is possible that remaining units become bigger. Look at Shaw AFB they lost one squadron and the remaining three became bigger.

Greetz

Latest info sent to me recently. I'm sure it's not complete or official but thought this would be interesting to share.

Chickenlegs

Latest BRAC list from Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense
(Intelligence Oversight) CLOSURES FOR 2005

BRAC List - Just off the Press Army bases currently proposed for closure or
realignment in 2005 include:

* Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania
* Detroit Arsenal, Michigan
* Fort Belvoir, Virginia
* Fort Buchanan, Puerto Rico
* Fort McPherson/Gillem, Georgia
* Fort Monmouth, New Jersey
* Fort Monroe, Virginia
* Fort Polk, Louisiana (to realign)
* Fort Richardson, Alaska
* Fort Sam Houston, Texas
* Fort Shafter, Hawaii
* Lima Army Tank Plant, Ohio
* Natick Soldier Center, Massachusetts
* Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey
* Redstone Arsenal, Alabama
* Rock Island Arsenal, Illinois
* Sierra Army Depot, California
* Yuma Proving Ground, Arizona

Air Force base closures and realignments include:

* Altus AFB, Oklahoma
* Beale AFB, California
* Brooks AFB, Texas
* Cannon AFB, New Mexico
* Columbus AFB, Mississippi
* Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota
* Goodfellow AFB, Texas
* Grand Forks AFB, North Dakota
* Hanscom AFB, Massachusetts
* Kirtland AFB, New Mexico
* Los Angeles AFB, California
* McConnell AFB, Kansas
* Nellis AFB, Nevada (to realign)
* Seymour Johnson AFB, North Carolina (to realign)
* Shaw AFB, South Carolina
* Vance AFB, Oklahoma

The Air Force will lose 2,260 military and 2,839 civilian manpower
positions, and 1,055 reserve drill authorizations next year, according to
the 2004 force-structure announcement released July 23. Many bases, both
active duty and reserve component, are affected by the realignment. In many
cases, units will gain aircraft and missions, while others will pare down.

Besides manpower reductions, the realignment formally announces the
retirement of the C-9A Nightingale and KC-135E Stratotanker aircraft.

According to Air Force officials, the 20 C-9s are being retired because of
reduced-patient movement, range limitations and increasing maintenance and
upgrade costs. The aeromedical evacuation mission will become a
requirements-based system using all passenger-capable aircraft.

The service will retire 44 of the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve
Command's 43-year-old KC-135Es next year, replacing them with
24 KC-135Rs from the active-duty fleet. By the end of fiscal 2006, the Air
Force will have retired 68 of the KC-135Es.

Naval base closures and realignments include:

* Ingleside Naval Station, Texas
* Naval Postgraduate School, California
* Naval Air Station Meridian, Mississippi
* Naval Air Engineering Station Lakehurst, New Jersey
* Naval Recreation Station Solomons Island,
* Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane, Indiana
* Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren Division, Virginia
* Navy Supply Corps School, Georgia
* New Orleans Naval Support Activity, Louisiana
* Pascagoula Naval Station, Mississippi
* Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, New Hampshire
* Saratoga Springs Naval Support Unit, New York

Marine base closures and realignments include:

* Marine Corps Logistics Base Albany, Georgia
* Marine Corps Logistics Base Barstow, California (realignment)
* Marine Corps Air Station Miramar, California
* Marine Corps Mountain Warfare School, California
* Marine Reserve Support Unit, Kansas City
* Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, California (realign or close).

WOW, that's a pretty big list there chickenlegs! You haven't come accross any info about Air Guard/Reserve bases have you?

The rumor-of-the-month here is that we'll (Fargo) shut down and move up to Grand Forks to take over the 135Rs. I personally don't see that happening though, recruiting for an ANG unit couldn't be supported by that area---and besides that with Homeland Defense a big topic lately---even our border to the North---I think that our Air Defense mission is fairly secure.

I know that there's more in the making with regards to re-allignments. Was briefed by the Wing Commander the other day and it sounds like Richmond is for sure moving to Langley. Had some comments about Buckley that seem to correspond with rumors. Take a look at the home page of this site and the article regarding combat capability. I'm sure this is not all encompassing.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1269.html

Chickenlegs

IDCrewDawg wrote:Not to mention Russian chicks are hotties!

And you used to think the Philippines were bad for guys coming back with wives. I took Russian as my foreign language, let me tell you that the exchange students are "dressing to stay in the country."

Chickenlegs, the list you posted is neither "complete" nor official, not from the DOD perspective, anyway. It may be complete from the standpoint of the dreamer who conceived it, however.

Ladies and Gents, there IS no "BRAC List" if, by that term, reference is to a listing of installations DOD recommends be closed or realigned. This list headed, "Latest BRAC list from Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense (Intelligence Oversight) CLOSURES FOR 2005," is but the latest in a long string of bogus lists generated for political purposes to stir up controversy and assert local agendas not related at all to BRAC's purpose. Want to hear some truly silly? I first saw this particular list when someone passed it around with the note, "The list is out - we're on it - this is a copy being circulated amond DOD's 'College of Colonels' for final vetting ..."

Now how absolutely stupid does that sound? You really do have to consider these things in the context of how they're presented. Very early on, there was a list posted at http://www.g2mil.com/2005.htm that says of the Army's Fort Belvoir, Va., where I work: "Critics often note there are over 100,000 servicemen in the Washington DC area, and not a single combat unit. Housing costs are high and traffic gridlock common. This is not place for an army base, which is why Belvoir has been downsized, with one-third of the base now a nature preserve. The three small commands here may relocate to any Army base. Federal activities will continue in place, except the land will revert to Fairfax County as the Army sheds the burden of running a base and shuts down support activities. Some Army activities may remain as part of Fort Myer."

Click over to our website at www.belvoir.army.mil, hang around in there just a few minutes, and decide for yourself whether this guy has any idea of what he's talking about. Consider for a moment just two basic facts against what he says: Fort Belvoir has more than 120 commands and agencies - no other installation in the DOD is organized like Belvoir - and our daytime workforce population exceeds that of the Pentagon itself.

I suggest everyone here on the forum needs to have one basic response to lists like the one sent to Chickenlegs, and that is to go immediate back to the sender and say, "Look, bud, you're not helping anything." The one-and-only REAL list of DOD's decision for closure and realignment will be out in due time. But, it isn't now, not in draft or any other form.

Don Carr
Woodbridge VA

K-9 wrote:I have heard from the PR-officer at Spangdahlem that Spangdahlem will be kept open for a long time, there is even an expansion of the base taking place, because the Air Force is pulling out of Rhein-Mainz Ab and a part of the traffic from their is coming to Spangdahlem and the other part is going to Ramstein.

Ramstein is also expanding and Aviano will also be kept open. I have even heard that they want to open a base in Poland!

I don't think the rumor is that Spang or Aviano is closing any time soon. Everything that I have heard (and once even from a guy with a bird on his collar) is that these bases will stay, but the jets that are currently there will go somewhere else. The likely thing from this would be one squadron from each base forming a new base and then something else with the left-overs.

Of course, i've also heard the rumor several times that all stateside 16 bases, except test and Nellis, will combine at Canon and Indian Springs would become Nellis so Vegas can have a second Airport. This is just stupid, and I think proves the point that rumors can be extremely over played...

mohody wrote:WOW, that's a pretty big list there chickenlegs! You haven't come accross any info about Air Guard/Reserve bases have you?

The rumor-of-the-month here is that we'll (Fargo) shut down and move up to Grand Forks to take over the 135Rs. I personally don't see that happening though, recruiting for an ANG unit couldn't be supported by that area---and besides that with Homeland Defense a big topic lately---even our border to the North---I think that our Air Defense mission is fairly secure.

If fargo goes away... where would the NE Defence detachment at langley AFB go to? Those guys get scrambled fairly often (FAA has got to be afraid of it's own shadow !! it is nice to be 5 miles from Langley AFB and still be able to see vipers every now and then...

The BRAC stands for Base REALIGNMENT and closure. Spang would loose the 16's and draw its overall workforce down and close the duplicating nearby bitburg to conserve resources and money. They are dumping lots of money into spang to make it an alternate supply shipping and movement standing station. Again this is just my theory.

Remember politics play a big part of a BRAC, Sen. Sam Nunn kept Georgia off every final Brac list. States that have taken big hits in the past will be pointing fingers you bet at states that haven't been hit bad. We are still drawing down and untill we gear back up stuff like this is going to happen. Anybody remember the Reagan buildup of the 80s? Project 2000?

I'm pretty sure Miramar is safe - Randy "Duke" Cunningham and Duncan Hunter (his son is enlisted in the USMC) will see to that ! Same goes for the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego...