Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Who is this man really? In sevral articles here on F-16.net he has spoken out like aomebody who has a better insight and know how than most people, with the inside information to back it up. Does he have any schooling or a job that puts him in a position to get information the rest of us don't have? I would just like to know how much faith I can put in his articles here on this web site.

In"House proposes F-35 production cuts and funds for alternate engine" he knows better that the Navy when it comes to buying fighters.

In "F-22, the Gates factor" he knows better than the secretary of decence and his staffon the production of the F-22. He also knows better than LMart on the production, testing and fielding of the F-35.

In "Donley and Schwartz are wrong" and "No shack, Just a miss" he knows better than USAF leadership on the capabilities of the F-22, F-35 and legacy fighters and the ratio they should be deployed in.

In "Australia can retire risk" he sounds like a Boeing sales rep, arguing that the F-18E/F works and the F-35 doesn't yet (again knowing more than LMart).

Just to finish of I would like to say 2 things.
1. I find mr. Palmer's MANY articles informative and inlightning. Yes there should be a debate over which A/C should be fielded, but hammering the F-35 with bad information and arguments is not the way to go.
2. I think the F-35 will be a success, although a few modifications at depot level will probably be neccesary. The F-16 started as block 1 and is now at block 50/52+++. Here in Norway we are flying block 1's modified to MLU4 standard with JHMCS, MMC and Link-16. They work, old but they work.

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Eric on the WESTERN side of Circular Quay, Sydney, NSW Australia with the Opera House in the background:

http://ericpalmer.wordpress.com/about/

I was thinking a bit more on where his knowhow comes from.

In all fairness I should say a bit about my self before I ask about others. Early 30's, been interested in fighters all my life, worked on norwegian F-16's for close to 12 years, operationally, intermediate level and depot level. I don't have a picture to upload here on my work computer, but that can be arranged at home tonight. Mr. Green

IMHO, spend less effort trying to paint a particular member and stick more with making legit viewpoints in support of original opinions - according to your personal perspective of a debate. That will translate into much more interesting discussion and create more food for thought on all sides of the issue. Take a bull by the horns and to task, you know? See what can come from that which is new and intriguing!

BTW, thanks for making some interesting references and notes about the general development of RoNAF F-16 program/scenario..

Respects-

I did not want to "paint a particular member" or insult anyone. If anyone feels that I have crossed that line, my appoligies.

It is just that I feel that mr. Palmers articles are very often negative to the F-35. The F-16 was ordered by the USAF (600+)and EPAF (300+) before the SDD airplanes flew, if I am not mistaken, and it has turned out to be one hell of an airplane. Comparing todays F-16 to the first production models is sort of comparing apples and oranges, same basic shape, but not the same inside. The F-35 will work given time. I admit it has not been fully tested, but that is development for you. The F-22 couldn't even fly to Japan 2 years ago without loosing all of it's cool computers, and that was productions models. Fleet wide snags on small and large scale will be uncovered when any airplane is used.

PS: I am a norwegian and therefore my english isn't perfect. Things may be lost in translation. Sorry.

I've asked for Mr Palmer to show his credentials for all to see in the past to but to no avail, very telling if you ask me...

geogen wrote:

IMHO, spend less effort trying to paint a particular member

Normally I would agree with you 100% on this, howevr, Mr Palmer has decided to paint himself as THE authority on the F-35, running it down left right and center and attacking the program whereever possible which begs the question just what authority does he have? Was he ever a fighter pilot? Was he ever involved with the manufacture and design of fighter jets -more imprtantly 5th gen fighters. He attacks all aspects of the program from his lofty all-knowing pearch yet few have called him up on just what qualifications and background he has to be in a position to do so which is strange to say the least.
I for one suspect his qualifications a and experience are no-where near the levels needed to be taken seriously by those inside or outside the industry and taking Mr Palmers word as gospel would be like listening to 'yahoo answers' for advice on how to fight cancer rather then my own doctors advice....

jacarlsen wrote:

I did not want to "paint a particular member" or insult anyone. If anyone feels that I have crossed that line, my appoligies.

It is just that I feel that mr. Palmers articles are very often negative to the F-35. The F-16 was ordered by the USAF (600+)and EPAF (300+) before the SDD airplanes flew, if I am not mistaken, and it has turned out to be one hell of an airplane. Comparing todays F-16 to the first production models is sort of comparing apples and oranges, same basic shape, but not the same inside. The F-35 will work given time. I admit it has not been fully tested, but that is development for you. The F-22 couldn't even fly to Japan 2 years ago without loosing all of it's cool computers, and that was productions models. Fleet wide snags on small and large scale will be uncovered when any airplane is used.

PS: I am a norwegian and therefore my english isn't perfect. Things may be lost in translation. Sorry.

where did you work in Norway? I was at Ørland and Bødo for a while working for Daedalus. Would like to know if we ever met.

I worked at Ørland (phase maintenance) from september 1997 to august 1999, at Bodø (Phase maintenance, snag repair on the flightline, wheel and brake shop and hydrazine) from september 1999 to oktober 2005 and I am presently working at Kjeller depot(M3 + falcon star).

Todays article from mr. Palmer "DCP Confirms F-35 for Australia" contains some food for thought.

jacarlsen wrote:

Who is this man really? In sevral articles here on F-16.net he has spoken out like aomebody who has a better insight and know how than most people, with the inside information to back it up. Does he have any schooling or a job that puts him in a position to get information the rest of us don't have? I would just like to know how much faith I can put in his articles here on this web site.

How can one man know so much? How can one man have such amazing insight into a program that he is not involved with? How can one man have so much insight that he knows better than the Defence Departments of 13 partner nations? More importantly, how can he know so much with only unclassified data?

Take whatever is said on any website with a grain of salt.

Last edited by elp on Jul 01, 2009 - 02:38 PM; edited 1 time in total

I hammer the F-35 much less than the other 99 percent of the writings on the topic that gush at its every PowerPoint slide and press release. Don't worry. If one needs to seek solace one only needs to look around at a lot of the bought and paid for writings on the F-35. You know... the kind where you read a article on it and right above or to the side of it is a LM F-35 LockMart advert. Wink

I grew up in an aviation family so the awe of it is quite a bit less than those that haven't.

I have had the advantage of seeing just about all areas of the USAF except Spec Ops and ICBMs...(seen a lot of other neat things in the DOD... of the other services, the P-3 units were most impressive)

The closest I ever got to ICBMs was this one time when I walked into the then SAC HQ Missile directorate and was a bit shocked. You see, just about everyone has one of those desk name plates that have what looks like one of those long shinny things that well.... Laughing

Everyone looked like their dog got kicked too. This was few days after it was announced that SAC was to be retired. Crying or Very sad

Lets see one of the coolest jobs I had was on "The Hill" at Misawa. Now that is money well spent to see all that stuff. The people and the mission were amazing.

Another place I was at was in England. One of our customers was the 527th Aggressor Squadron where we would do all the visuals for their training program. Saw the whole BFM curriculum. This is the other end compared to having seen how deployments are done. One of the guys that always needed artwork updated would stop buy and we would put produce the slide work to his spec. Tico would later be known as a POW in Desert Storm.

Saw various F-15 units over the years close up and... ended my days in civilian DOD service at the F-15 depot. Great people there. Saw the whole depot process from fruit to nuts.

Been around the communities of F-16s, A-10, B-52s (even the last of the B-52Ds (anyone remember DBNS?) , all the transports, tankers, ISR (Iron Triangle), U-2 etc and so on.

This includes few really ugly aircraft mishaps ( and a bunch of others that were just funny the way they happened and no one hurt ).

For all the aircraft related things I have seen, there are the 99 percent of the rest of the USAF both good and bad that the rest of the general public has no clue about. All of it fascinating in some way.

Did the crime scene photography on lots of things for many many years. The cruelty people can do is astonishing. The most famous crime scene photography thing I did was a double (almost triple) homicide at RAFB. Did 27 hours without sleep (the OSI doesn't stop much for sleep from what I have seen). Having read "Evidence Dismissed" I am sure the level of damage on this one topped O.J.

It is unfortunate that the OSI gets trashed sometimes (example the Metzger fiasco) as every time I worked with them they were at a real high skill level.

I have seen scores of weird and wonderful things in the USAF and DOD and been blessed to see and talk too people at so many different levels and to travel a lot.

I also remember and have seen where a lot of the skeletons and adverse behavior of the institution are buried - stuff that still exists today.

And while I may be harsh against, lets say the USAF, that is because I have seen it perform to such high levels. I still have a fair amount of contacts.

I would like to say that certain communities in the USAF are my favorite but there are too many to list.

So while I don't have an engineering degree and you are welcome to guffaw, I'd rather judge a person by what they have seen and where they have been and what they know. What I have put down here is the very short version.

shep1978 wrote:

I've asked for Mr Palmer to show his credentials for all to see in the past to but to no avail, very telling if you ask me...

:::: yawn ::::

elp wrote:

So while I don't have an engineering degree and you are welcome to guffaw,

'gaffaw' indeed if you think you are qualified to speak with authority on the subject looking at your experience.
I'll continue to listen to the genuine authorities on the subject i think, that is those from LM, its staff and its customers who are set to operate the product.

shep1978 wrote:

elp wrote:

So while I don't have an engineering degree and you are welcome to guffaw,

'gaffaw' indeed if you think you are qualified to speak with authority on the subject looking at your experience.
I'll continue to listen to the genuine authorities on the subject i think, that is those from LM, its staff and its customers who are set to operate the product.

Yeah, lets see... LM... you can recognize them by the $$$ signs ... customers? Well some are more like prisoners if you listen listen to some of their "analysis" .... we have to get it because we can't back out now = dumb. .... "set to operate the product"... since when did they have a choice? Laughing

Eric,

While I applaud your experiences, it in no way makes you an expert. I am 3rd generation military myself. My grandfather flew on the Picadilly Lilly in WWII. Have the dog tag and flight cap to prove it. My father was an F-111/F-4 engine mechanic during Vietnam. I myself was an F-16 CC @ Misawa with the 14th FS and I know the "Elephant Cage" quite well. Not to mention I worked as an F-16 Specialist for the Royal Dutch and Royal Norwegian Air Forces. Considering what I know, I think I have some insight on the subject, but would never consider myself an expert simply because of it. You on the other hand seem to think your heritage gives you some distinct advantage on the subject.

Please tell me what company doesn't see $$$ signs?? Its the whole point. What matters here is what company had the best product available at the time, and Lockheed won. If you want the X-32, please let us know. If you have a better idea, please let us know. Please tell me of one acft program that has not had its problems in development. And what is it about the F-35 that you dislike so much?? To have a background as you say and to be so pessimistic leaves one to wonder.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Who is Eric L. Palmer?