Cancer-causing substances in the F-16I cockpit?

Lieven · by **Lieven** » 22 Mar 2008, 08:07

<a href="news_article2791.html">Carcinogen grounds Israeli F-16I jets</a>

Formaldehyde, a potentially carcinogenic material was found in the cockpit of one of their 62 F-16I's.

Could it be just a residue just coming from the exhaust? Flight International says it could also be from the F-16I air conditioning system.

Any other ideas?

SnakeHandler · by **SnakeHandler** » 22 Mar 2008, 08:24

Maybe they just have REALLY old dudes flying it. :lmao:

geogen · by **geogen** » 22 Mar 2008, 09:14

This is probably totally off the radar, but it's just my postulating for extreme conversation here.. maybe such a public notice and 'grounding' is part ploy to help engender more favorable sympathy and support for adding new birds to IAF's fleet someday? I.E. F-35 or F-22? Or maybe just a good deal on an F-16 systems upgrade?

SnakeHandler · by **SnakeHandler** » 22 Mar 2008, 09:31

Nah, they'd think of something structural for that.

Michael_HHN · by **Michael_HHN** » 22 Mar 2008, 13:32

Read the article below. Only F-16I's SUFA are affected.

Cancer-causing substance halts F-16I training flights
By Stephen Trimble

Fears about a cancer-causing substance in the cockpit has prompted the Israeli Air Force (IAF) to suspend training flights for its 62-aircraft fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16I Sufas.

“According to tests the substance is formaldehyde that recently was defined as causing cancer above certain concentration,” says the IAF spokesman.

Formaldehyde is a known by-product of jet engine exhaust, but it’s not clear if the IDF detected uniquely high levels in the cockpit of the F-16I. By contrast, the IAF’s fleet of 125 F-16C/Ds remain fully operational.

Israeli sources say an IAF team is traveling on Sunday to Lockheed Martin Aeronautics headquarters at Fort Worth, Texas, to identify the source of the potentially cancerous substance.

The sources also indicate that the immediate source of the formaldehyde is probably the F-16I air conditioning system.

Lockheed Martin is “investigating some recent IAF pilot reports regarding the air quality in their F-16I aircraft and we are providing this support,” a company spokeswoman says. “We have not had similar reports by other F-16 users.”

There are 3,561 F-16s in active service with international air forces around the world, according to Flight’s Milicas database.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ights.html

That_Engine_Guy · by **That_Engine_Guy** » 22 Mar 2008, 13:41

True the largest VOC in jet engine exhaust is Formaldehyde, but...

:2c:

Sounds like someone put in a new part into the cockpit, or replaced something in the air conditioning system. Some plastic parts, foam insulation, adhesives, coatings and/or sealants can give off formaldehyde.

Consider the cockpits are open during most of the Viper's construction and maintenance so many fumes will naturally disperse, but if NEW parts are installed prior to a flight....?

Ever purchased a new car?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/200 ... mell_x.htm

The new-car smell emanates largely from chemicals known as volatile organic compounds, or VOCs, that leach from glues, paints, vinyls and plastics in the passenger compartment. The fumes can trigger headaches, sore throats, nausea and drowsiness. Prolonged exposure to some of the chemicals can lead to cancer, though there's no evidence linking that to concentrations in cars.

I just saw something on TV recently concerning residual formaldehyde on plastic medical equipment could be affecting children in hospitals. Due to a child's lower size, smaller amounts can be toxic to them quicker than an adult.

Keep 'em flyin' (Safely) :thumb:

TEG

SixerViper · by **SixerViper** » 22 Mar 2008, 17:24

Dad-gummit, TEG, you beat me to it! I was gonna say something about the "new-car smell" of the I-model but you beat me to the punch!

ATFS_Crash · by **ATFS_Crash** » 22 Mar 2008, 18:04

Formaldehyde is an intermediate in the oxidation (or combustion) of methane as well as other carbon compounds, e.g., forest fires, in automobile exhaust, and in tobacco smoke. It is produced in atmosphere by the action of sunlight and oxygen on atmospheric methane and other hydrocarbons; thus, it becomes part of smog. Small amounts of formaldehyde are produced as a metabolic byproduct in most organisms, including humans.

I think grain alcohol breaks down into formaldehyde to some extent. I think that’s part of the reason people get hangovers if they drink too much.

asiatrails · by **asiatrails** » 23 Mar 2008, 00:50

If they do not have OBOGS then it might be engine oil getting into the system and breaking down.

tiran · by **tiran** » 23 Mar 2008, 03:55

I think it's all the resin Ra'anan Weiss installed for them... :lol:

[b]

That_Engine_Guy · by **That_Engine_Guy** » 23 Mar 2008, 04:05

asiatrails wrote:If they do not have OBOGS then it might be engine oil getting into the system and breaking down.

A pilot would know if it was oil smoke or oil in the system. It has a smoke/smell all it's own. I know formalahyde is in the fumes from jet fuel, but have never know it to be in the oil or oil smoke/vapor. :shrug:

The principal toxic constituents of this smoke are tricresyl phosphate, carbon monoxide, and N-phenyl-L-naphthylamine

Engine technicians would quickly diagnose a discovery like this. The engine would be changed quickly then returned to the shop for troubleshooting/repair.

FYI, Oil leaks in the front half of the engine can allow it to get into the ECS system, anything 'upstream' of the 7th/13th stage bleed-air manifolds.

Keep 'em flyin' (Safely) :thumb:

TEG

asiatrails · by **asiatrails** » 23 Mar 2008, 19:53

That_Engine_Guy wrote:
asiatrails wrote:If they do not have OBOGS then it might be engine oil getting into the system and breaking down.

A pilot would know if it was oil smoke or oil in the system. It has a smoke/smell all it's own. I know formalahyde is in the fumes from jet fuel, but have never know it to be in the oil or oil smoke/vapor.
The principal toxic constituents of this smoke are tricresyl phosphate, carbon monoxide, and N-phenyl-L-naphthylamine

Engine technicians would quickly diagnose a discovery like this. The engine would be changed quickly then returned to the shop for troubleshooting/repair.

FYI, Oil leaks in the front half of the engine can allow it to get into the ECS system, anything 'upstream' of the 7th/13th stage bleed-air manifolds.

Keep 'em flyin' (Safely)
TEG

True if it was in sufficient quantities. Rather than it being the result of the breakdown of pure hot oil, what I am thinking about is the chemical reaction between Molybdenum trioxide and Methane which generates formaldehyde vapor. The attached paper describes the reaction.

It depends on how the bleed air from the engine is conditioned within the ECS system, and possibly, the greases used in the hot areas of the air handling system. Should be very interesting to find out what is the cause.

.

That_Engine_Guy · by **That_Engine_Guy** » 23 Mar 2008, 20:40

I've never known of any issues like that with the MIL-L-7808 engine oil. In any fighter/airframe. (F100 engines require use of MIL-L-7808J or higher oil)

Leaks, fumes or smoke yes, but not that type of decomposition. If formaldehyde vapors were produced by burning or decomposition of 7808 it would need to be on the MSDS? Right?

There are some Moly-based lubricants (greases) used in the F100 engine, but not in a place where it could find it's way into the bleed-air manifolds.

I still bet someone worked on something in the cockpit or ECS that had residual fumes, or used some unauthorized sealant or glue in the wrong area. :2c:

Perhaps the F-16Is had something different in their ECS system or cockpit? I haven't seen any mention of toxic fumes in PW-229 Vipers of USAF, ANG, South Korea, Singapore, Greece, or Poland.

It will be interesting to find out where the fumes are from. :cheers:

dmac · by **dmac** » 23 Mar 2008, 22:59

Are the engines P/W or G.E.? G.E. is 5th and 9th air.... I worked ECS for 10+ and never smelled or heard of this. Could be a component in the cockpit that shorted/burned up.

VarkVet · by **VarkVet** » 23 Mar 2008, 23:13

Lieven wrote:Any other ideas?

Maybe ECS socks are BQ, and a pointy washed the dirty sock in an erroneous substance? :shrug:

Cleaners, Disinfectants, Fabric Softeners

Some household products may contain formaldehyde as a preservative or fabric finish.

Source: http://www.checnet.org/HealtheHouse/che ... ain_ID=346

However I believe the source is deeper than the sock because I’m sure that’s the first place they looked.