MADL vs other datalinks

Cockpit, radar, helmet-mounted display, and other avionics
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hornetfinn

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Unread post18 Dec 2020, 10:05

marauder2048 wrote:The alternatives are: airborne gateways, LPD waveforms for the L-band apertures on the F-22/F-35.
Or wait for an advanced MADL based on the DARPA MIDAS effort which would encompass the entire
spectrum from K - Q-band.


I think that L-band system will not be adopted as it would have many very difficult challenges. Low frequency and much more limited bandwidth means it would be very difficult to make it fast enough for the job. The same reasons also make it much more difficult to make a real LPI/LPD communications system. The signals would travel much further (less atmospheric attenuation), the beams would be far wider (without really big apertures) and sidelobe levels much higher. All would be detrimental to LPI/LPD. IMO, it would be pretty much impossible with apertures that fit inside aircraft.

I think gateways will be used at least initially and then possibly either or both aircraft being upgraded with something like MIDAS. Of course gateway might be good enough until F-22 gets replaced.
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Unread post19 Dec 2020, 06:02

Here’s why the Valkyrie drone couldn’t translate between F-35 and F-22 jets during a recent test
18 Dec 2020 Valerie Insinna

"During the Dec. 9 demonstration at Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona, the Valkyrie was outfitted with gatewayONE, a system capable of translating information from the F-35′s Multifunctional Advanced Data Link and the F-22′s Intra-Flight Data Link into a format that can be understood by other aircraft, all while maintaining a low probability of enemy forces intercepting that data.

But “shortly after takeoff, the communications payloads lost connectivity,” leaving nine out of 18 test objectives incomplete, the Air Force said in a news release.

Early feedback from the test team indicates that, during the rocket-assisted takeoff of the Valkyrie, some of the gatewayONE hardware came loose from where it was mated to the drone, said Air Force acquisition executive Will Roper.


“We think we had a connector that came loose during it because the gateway itself was fine when the Valkyrie landed. So [it’s] a thing we’ve learned from and we’ll fix next time,” he told reporters Dec. 18 during a Defense Writers Group roundtable. “Next time we get out, flying in the next on-ramp, we’ll probably check those soldering points more than one time.”

Despite the setbacks, the Air Force still clocked in a number of wins during the exercise.

Because the service had a second, land-based version of gatewayONE, it was able to use that system to pass targeting cues from an F-35 to an F-22 and exchange other data between the two aircraft. GatewayONE also pushed data that usually is confined to operations centers on the ground to the F-35 and F-22, while allowing those aircraft to send precise location data back through the translating system to the operations center.

Although the Valkyrie couldn’t transmit data between the F-22 and F-35, it still safety demonstrated that it could fly semiautonomously in operations with the two stealth jets for the first time ever...."

Source: https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefield-te ... cent-test/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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bring_it_on

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Unread post20 Dec 2020, 15:01

marauder2048 wrote:The alternatives are: airborne gateways, LPD waveforms for the L-band apertures on the F-22/F-35.
Or wait for an advanced MADL based on the DARPA MIDAS effort which would encompass the entire
spectrum from K - Q-band.



I think the Pentagon and Congress will both back out from replacing thousand of MALD sensors with a completely new hardware solution down the road. It could well be that that between the USAF and DON we have close to 1,000 aircraft fielded by the time a new MIDAS based solution is ready for production. So, while something like that is a natural fit on the NGAD and other upcoming aircraft, we will probably be stuck using gateways or other intermediaries for F-35 to F-22 data sharing for now.

I think gateways will be used at least initially and then possibly either or both aircraft being upgraded with something like MIDAS. Of course gateway might be good enough until F-22 gets replaced.


Yeah that's how I feel as well. F-22 is getting L16 transmit capability very soon. that and using a gateway to share data with F-35's, is probably the best we can hope for given programs like the B-21 and NGAD are going to be consuming an ever higher chunk of the budget pie within the USAF.
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doge

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Unread post24 Dec 2020, 15:27

KC-46A also participated. 8)
https://www.airforcemag.com/first-abms- ... anker-pod/
First ABMS Tool Could Be This Tanker Pod
Dec. 11, 2020 | By Brian W. Everstine
F-35 and F-22 jets, fighting off sophisticated military forces in a dangerous area without communications, briefly divert to fill up on gas. A KC-46 tanker plane hovers just outside the high-threat zone with fuel, as well as a new pod under its wing that shares mission orders created by artificial intelligence algorithms crunching big data.
That pod is slated to be the first capability deployed under the Air Force’s Advanced Battle Management System concept, possible next year using technologies demonstrated in the series of combat experiments known as “on-ramps,” according to the Air Force’s top weapons buyer and the head of Air Mobility Command.
ABMS, which last month became a venture of the Air Force’s secretive Rapid Capabilities Office, needs to move beyond research and development into procurement and operations, said Will Roper, assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition, technology, and logistics. This tanker solution will be the first step.
“As a formal program, with a baseline and schedule, you’ll be able to see a mini-internet instantiated in our mobility fleet, our tankers, that’s connected back to the cloud and analytics and AI that are pushing forward suggested courses of action,” Roper said.

He envisions the pod, which could also ride on KC-135s, will be able to provide combat options that AI has created specifically for each mission.
Those tankers can then relay information over local data gateways “that are doing the ‘Babel Fish’ translation to F-35s and F-22s that may be too far into the [anti-access, area-denial] bubble,” Roper said in an interview, referencing the language-translating fish in the novel “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.” “That will be a mini-snapshot of the bigger internet we hope to build across the joint force.”
ABMS, which ramped up from replacing the E-8C Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System planes, has ballooned into an “Internet of Military Things” that aims to connect sensors and shooters across the joint force via cloud-based networks and revolutionize how the Air Force operates. Critics, including some in Congress, argue the program is growing without a clear direction.
Roper said the tanker solution, part of a capability called Release No. 1, will be a tangible example to prove the Air Force has been doing “the digital grunt work of building that infrastructure, so that we could ultimately get to the cool stuff like machine-to-machine data exchanges and AI on the battlefield.”
The components of the new system have been demonstrated and proven through the ABMS demos, and the Air Force is reviewing the program. The RCO is looking at “different podded form factors and the right way to acquire them and sustain them, ensuring that they connect back to our multi-classification cloud,” Roper said.

“It’s just acquisition work. It’s time for ABMS to start having procurement and operations and sustainment funding associated with it,” he said.
He did not say which companies could be involved in producing the pod.
For Air Mobility Command, the new pod will be the result of years of work to grow tanker participation in combat. While fighters and bombers need gas to fight, KC-46s and KC-135s can also serve in an important command-and-control role.
“We have an opportunity with our tankers who will be airborne, where our mission is to support the tactical forces,” AMC boss Gen. Jacqueline D. Van Ovost said in an interview. “Why not have the capability to relay … line-of-sight and beyond-line-of-sight links to ensure that our tactical forces have the intelligence and support that they need while they’re airborne?”

Capabilities like this don’t have to be “fancy things,” she said.
“I’m looking at things that can slap on and transmit,” she said. “It may be a podded solution that could do just about anything, so that I won’t have to modify every airplane. Every airplane accepts a pod. … Then we just place the pods in areas of the world where we might need them, and make it simple for the crews to operate.”
While fighter jets and other platforms have also tested promising new networking technologies, Roper told Air Force Magazine that tankers will cross the finish line first.
“We haven’t discussed any candidates other than mobility as the first place we target,” he said.
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doge

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Unread post24 Dec 2020, 15:30

spazsinbad wrote:
Hanscom AFB team helps deploy Interim Full Motion Video on F-35B
17 Dec 2020 K. Houston Waters , 66th Air Base Group Public Affairs
“A good analogy comes from the well-known quote in the movie “Field of Dreams,” said Capt. Ronald Windham, Kill Chain Integration Branch program manager. “‘If you build it, they will come.’ Well, the team has built it. The OMS framework now exists and it is operational, just like the baseball field Kevin Costner built. This next wave of new capability is limitless.”

IFMV has a performance threshold range exceeding 50 nautical miles. Additionally, the system demonstrated interoperability with numerous ground receivers and other aircraft.

“Not only will IFMV provide the F-35B an indispensable warfighting capability four years ahead of schedule, but it will also prove OMS as a viable architecture going forward, one that enables the acquisition community to deliver upgraded capability faster, and cheaper, than ever before,” DiMaria said. “OMS compliance is now a DoD-wide requirement in all new platform projects, and the Special Programs Division will be the first to show its power. It is essential to the way we fight not just for USMC, but now for all.”"

Source: https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... -on-f-35b/

Does this mean that the EOTS detection range is 50 nm ? :roll:
If so...Wow!! :shock:
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