F-35B crashes after mid-air collision with tanker

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 29 Dec 2020, 20:51

For the delectation of youse USAFers wot don't know hosen drogen refuellen attached is a 17 page extract from NATOPS.

"9.3.1.9 HOSE CUT/SAFE Switch.
The HOSE CUT/SAFE switch is a two position switch springloaded to the SAFE position and held in SAFE by a spring-loaded guard. The switch is wired through the WonW interlock to prevent accidental activation on the deck.
SAFE Normal position.
CUT Refueling hose is cut and crimped. ARS is deactivated hydraulically and electrically. In flight, the switch must be held for several seconds." https://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-EF-000.pdf (19Mb)

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 30 Dec 2020, 00:22

This sounds like a less stressful option:

9.3.3 ARS Jettison.
The ARS may be jettisoned in the same manner as other external stores.

That cut the hose+crimp concept sounds bizarre. However, I guess you wouldn't put a system on the ARS unless you expected to use it. :shock:

Anybody here used it? ("Myrtle, I found this in the back yard. Do you know what it is?")

For the delectation of youse USAFers wot don't know hosen drogen refuellen

Got about 2000 hrs of USAF hosen drogen and have seen a basket not only break off, but slide down the probe to the wing root.

KC-135 guys didn't cut the hose (Pretty sure they didn't even have a SAFE/CUT SW), but they did whine that they wanted their basket back. Niagara had a basket on the wall in their bar that they used like a dart board to throw empty beer cans at.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 30 Dec 2020, 00:36

BasketTinnie:
"... Niagara had a basket on the wall in their bar that they used like a dart board to throw empty beer cans at.

"

The Three Stooges: Gents Without Cents - Niagara Falls Routine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBtURtFNX8

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 30 Dec 2020, 00:56

Crimping the hose after cutting it means no more fuel leakage (or minimal). I never had a problem with ARF except first sortie (explained elsewhereonhere). However an exchange USMC pilot to the A4G squadrons at NAS Nowra apparently did.

But first one linebook page from VF-805 after my time it seems 'Muzza' (Murray) had a problem with the airspeed probe.

Second VF-805 linebook page shows the miscreant hose apparently wrapped around the tail of the A4G - dunno details. Name of USMC A4G Buddy Tanker CAPT redacted to protect the USMC....

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 30 Dec 2020, 01:20

ASlo WhereELSE (yes I know) hosendrogen ARF problems have been discussed with video of an USN A-4 arresting mit it all.

VIDEO below first seen here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28906&p=316147&hilit=nVCKAjEvBbA#p316147

A-4 Arrest Hose Drogue in Trail Pilot Probe Dismount https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVCKAjEvBbA

35_aoa · by **35_aoa** » 30 Dec 2020, 07:43

outlaw162 wrote:That cut the hose+crimp concept sounds bizarre. However, I guess you wouldn't put a system on the ARS unless you expected to use it. Anybody here used it?

Yes, I once attempted to. ARS had a complete failure as the hose was about halfway through extending. Tried cockpit "surgery" by removing the control panel in flight with a leatherman in order to verify the electrical connector hadn't come loose during the cat shot. That wasn't it. Eventually got to the point of either cutting the hose, diverting, or jettisoning the pod. Tried #1 as I mentioned, but it won't work if the jet is no longer electrically connected to the ARS (we determined this to be the case with this step). Ended up going with option #2 as #3 probably would have been expensive and involved far more questions

Dragged the hose and basket several thousand feet down the runway until I came to a stop. Surprisingly little damage to said parts. Pod was up and running a few weeks later.

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 31 Dec 2020, 19:09

Good stuff, thanx.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 02 Jan 2021, 21:27

Perhaps one needs to keep in mind that the same ARS will be used by MQ-25As flown remotely by Navy Warrant Officers:

15 Dec 2020 "...last week, the Navy and Boeing announced that the MQ-25 T1 test asset had completed its first flight using an aerial refueling store at MidAmerica St. Louis Airport in Mascoutah, Illinois, with Boeing test pilots. Boeing said that it employed the Cobham ARS for the flight, noting that the ARS is the same as the one that F/A-18s utilize for air-to-air refueling as well. “Having a test asset flying with an ARS gets us one big step closer in our evaluation of how MQ-25 will fulfill its primary mission in the fleet — aerial refueling,” Capt. Chad Reed, the U.S. Navy’s unmanned carrier aviation program manager, said in a Boeing news release...." https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... ng-drones/

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 26 Jan 2021, 03:25

One wonders when this stabilisation will be enabled. Video dated 10 Jan 2020 1st posted by 'marauder2048' a year ago: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=20468&p=432880&hilit=Dli5c27Bv9g#p432880

AMA's Actively Stabilized Drogue Refueling System (ASDRS). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dli5c27Bv9g

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 03 Mar 2022, 15:07

Marine KC-130J Pilot Awarded DFC

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine- ... collision/

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 03 Mar 2022, 18:27

I think if I were him I'd be inclined to push for a fighter assignment, like the Navy P-3 guy who got hit by the Chinese jet.

These kind of resume' enhancers just don't come along very often....the 'Sully" of the USMC.

(Although, back in the 60s when a small number of USMC overflow students were trained by USAF, I had an outstanding USMC T-37 student who went on to T-38s and eventually finished overall number one in his class of about 60 (with 59 USAF students)....and still opted for a C-130 out of El Toro. Weird.)

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 03 Mar 2022, 19:00

“…finished overall number one in his class...and still opted for a C-130...Weird.”

Most of the 130 drivers I knew were/are there by choice. Lotsa different reasons, but their first choice. It’s a good community.

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 03 Mar 2022, 19:13

I can see the F-35 driver involved here being happy with a C-130 at this point. :mrgreen:

Will we ever find out what happened?

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 03 Mar 2022, 19:53

outlaw162 wrote:... Will we ever find out what happened?

Good on the USMC crew. BZ. After all this time it seems unlikely the great unwashed will ever know what transpired.

35_aoa · by **35_aoa** » 04 Mar 2022, 08:25

outlaw162 wrote:I think if I were him I'd be inclined to push for a fighter assignment, like the Navy P-3 guy who got hit by the Chinese jet.

Saying that guy was not well received upon his return would be an understatement. Don't know the back story on what you are referring to, but I am going to guess he didn't get said transition.....even good P-3 guys are generally not competitive. One of my early T-34 instructors had been a pilot in that crew in his previous tour, and spent some time on a Hainan island getaway.