The Turkey problem

loke · by **loke** » 24 Feb 2021, 18:28

The US is "urging" Turkey. Last warning before serious sanctions? Or just a response to questions from journalists?

Feb 24 2021 01:53 Gmt+3
Last Updated On: Feb 24 2021 01:54 Gmt+3
The United States said NATO member Turkey should abandon the S-400 air defence system purchased from Russia in 2019, saying it provided Moscow with influence, access and revenue.

Turkey is facing possible U.S. economic sanctions in addition to measures in December against its defence procurement agency after testing the Russian missiles last year. It is negotiating to buy a second battery from Moscow in a deal that may include technology transfers and local production.

“Again, we urge Turkey not to move ahead with the delivery of the S-400,” Pentagon press secretary John Kirby told reporters in an off-camera briefing on Tuesday. “We believe it's incompatible with the F-35 (fighter jet), and Turkey remains suspended from that program. Again, we urge them not to retain it.”

Turkey had multiple opportunities over the past decade to purchase the U.S. Patriot air defence system but instead chose the S-400, Kirby said.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 03 Mar 2021, 16:36

Biden administration is saying Turkey is "suspended" from the F-35 program. Suspensions can be lifted. I was under the impression the Trump administration had kicked Turkey to the curb, and there was no way back into the F-35 program. Perhaps my understanding was misinformed?

But let's say Turkey backs out of the S-400 deal and returns all parts to Russia (or, better yet, sells them to Air America :devil:

)... should the US / NATO even let Turkey back in? Who is to say Turkey is let back in, acquires 30-40 Lightnings, and then turns around and says to Putin, "OK, let's resume, I've got them!"

Once shown untrustworthy, I would not let Turkey back in. Why then, the use of the word "suspended?"

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 03 Mar 2021, 17:14

steve2267 wrote:
Once shown untrustworthy,

So when can we can rip the band aid off on Canada and kick them to the curb??

loke · by **loke** » 04 Mar 2021, 11:56

XanderCrews wrote:
steve2267 wrote:
Once shown untrustworthy,

So when can we can rip the band aid off on Canada and kick them to the curb??

Dont worry, Trudeau will sooner or later leave and then things will go back to "normal".

loke · by **loke** » 04 Mar 2021, 11:57

The president of the Turkish Defense Industries declared on Tuesday that the country is not seeking to acquire the next-generation fighter jet F-35 “at any cost.” In an interview with Turkish channel NTV, Ismail Demir claimed Turkey’s move to hire the prominent US law firm Arnold & Porter was not an effort to re-enter the F-35 program but to seek compensation.

“What we are saying is that we do not desperately need to rejoin the program. We are saying there is an injustice that needs to be remedied,” Demir said.

“The goal of all our efforts is not necessarily a return to the program, but to seek compensation for the injustices we suffered and the arbitrary loss of our rights,” he added.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/11562 ... try-chief/

Sour grapes?

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 04 Mar 2021, 20:42

loke wrote:Sour grapes?

Very.

I'd say they might have had a case if they had been kicked to the curb with no warning. It's not like they had been warned not to purchase the S-400, warned again, warned even more... before they persisted in purchasing the S-400.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 04 Mar 2021, 20:45

XanderCrews wrote:
steve2267 wrote:
Once shown untrustworthy,

So when can we can rip the band aid off on Canada and kick them to the curb??

Canaduh has been acting pretty friggin stupid with regard to a program that has been netting them an awful lot of work (and jobs), but they haven't actually sunk a knife in the back of the USA, so to speak. Perhaps if that big joint Canaduh -- CeeCeePee joyfest had taken place... Or if Trudeau had insisted on buying his very own S-400 radar?

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 04 Mar 2021, 21:03

steve2267 wrote:
Canaduh has been acting pretty friggin stupid with regard to a program that has been netting them an awful lot of work (and jobs), but they haven't actually sunk a knife in the back of the USA, so to speak. Perhaps if that big joint Canaduh -- CeeCeePee joyfest had taken place... Or if Trudeau had insisted on buying his very own S-400 radar?

Theyve been reaping the rewards without paying the costs for a long time... Theyve also been nibbling at the edges of their agreement. not S-400 level but playing fast and loose with previously agreed on rules

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 04 Mar 2021, 23:08

XanderCrews wrote:Theyve been reaping the rewards without paying the costs for a long time...

Well, Canada (or the Canadian government to be more precise) have been paying and continue to pay the needed yearly amount/fee required in order to continue to participate on the F-35 program. Or resuming, Canada never left out from the F-35 program.

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 05 Mar 2021, 03:43

steve2267 wrote:
loke wrote:Sour grapes?

Very. I'd say they might have had a case if they had been kicked to the curb with no warning. It's not like they had been warned not to purchase the S-400, warned again, warned even more... before they persisted in purchasing the S-400.

Not only that, he went against US Treasury sanctions on Russia, over multiple serious actions, thus letting Russia off the hook diplomatically, and economically, and providing political, economic and military comfort to Putin in the process.

He had 100 x F-35A in the bag ... and threw it all away to get ... S400s. :mrgreen:

Something tells me that the people who actually know their stuff were not involved in formulating these choices.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 05 Mar 2021, 06:57

XanderCrews wrote:Theyve been reaping the rewards without paying the costs for a long time... Theyve also been nibbling at the edges of their agreement. not S-400 level but playing fast and loose with previously agreed on rules

Canaduh wants the work, wants the jobs. Yes, they have paid the yearly fee etc. Now buy the damn airplane. IMO, I have no problem with kicking Canaduh out of the program if they are not going to buy the airplane. Re-distribute the Canaduhian work to Finland, Switzerland, Singapore etc (should they buy the jet) -- to other nations that actually put their money where there mouth is.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 13 Mar 2021, 22:42

Turkey plans to deploy attack drones from its amphibious assault ship [best read at source]
11 Mar 2021 Tayfun Ozberk

"MERSIN, Turkey — The Turkish government hopes to transform its landing helicopter dock Anadolu into a carrier ship for attack drones, and has already begun tests to see if the dock ship is strong enough for the mission.

When the United States removed Turkey from the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter project after it purchased the s S-400 air defense system from Russia, the Turkish Navy lost the capability to launch a fixed-wing aircraft from Anadolu.

“To give UAVs takeoff-and-land[ing] ability on aircraft carriers, their structure must be strong because they are subjected to very high G-shocks. We aim to develop a new [unmanned combat aerial vehicle] UCAV that will successfully land and take off on LHD Anadolu in one year,” the CEO of drone-maker Baykar, Haluk Bayraktar, said during an recent interview.

Ismail Demir, the government’s president of defense industries, said companies have been working on the Baykar-made Bayraktar TB2 and other unmanned fixed-wing projects to turn Anadolu into a drone carrier....

...The Turkish Navy fitted the Anadolu ship with a fully equipped flight deck (with a ski jump ramp in front), suitable for F-35B short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft. The ship’s deck was designed and built with these type of aircraft in mind; but it doesn’t have the structure, provision and equipment for the conventional landing of fixed-wing aircraft. Only VTOL and STOVL air assets can operate on Anadolu.

As a result, the Turkish military’s attack drones cannot land and take off from Anadolu, and that’s why officials want to make modifications. But doing so could cause a delay in the delivery of the ship...." [you betcha]

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/2021 ... ault-ship/

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 25 Mar 2021, 08:06

Turkey still complaining about being stupid: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... as-s-400s/

blindpilot · by **blindpilot** » 10 May 2021, 16:21

On the Baby Carrier thread conversation ...
etc etc.

Corsair1963 wrote:No, I wouldn't be surprised. If, Turkey rejoins the F-35 fold......Which, I said from the start.

As I have mentioned, not sure who thinks Turkey is "rejoining.reentering" anything. Erdogan has ruptured all hope of reconciliation. If he were overthrown, hung in the street, and replaced by a smiling Ataturk good guy, it is unlikely that Turkey returns to western favor. The Islamic anti western spirits fanned to flame will take decades to repair if ever.

More likely is a return to the millennium of belly crawling up to the Russians only to be squashed by them just as has happened century after century. The west will cozy up to Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, even Georgia et al, and tell Turkey, "a pox on your house." Smart Turks (engineers, design techs, businessmen etc.) are fleeing the country which only damages their "modern western economy" even more. They will need to have Russian techs to even get their baby flattops out to sea.

MHO anyway,
BP

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 10 May 2021, 22:59

blindpilot wrote:On the Baby Carrier thread conversation ...
etc etc.

Corsair1963 wrote:No, I wouldn't be surprised. If, Turkey rejoins the F-35 fold......Which, I said from the start.

As I have mentioned, not sure who thinks Turkey is "rejoining.reentering" anything. Erdogan has ruptured all hope of reconciliation. If he were overthrown, hung in the street, and replaced by a smiling Ataturk good guy, it is unlikely that Turkey returns to western favor. The Islamic anti western spirits fanned to flame will take decades to repair if ever.

More likely is a return to the millennium of belly crawling up to the Russians only to be squashed by them just as has happened century after century. The west will cozy up to Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, even Georgia et al, and tell Turkey, "a pox on your house." Smart Turks (engineers, design techs, businessmen etc.) are fleeing the country which only damages their "modern western economy" even more. They will need to have Russian techs to even get their baby flattops out to sea.

MHO anyway,
BP

I think that is wishful thinking on the part of many. Yet, NATO and the US very much need Turkey. As Turkey needs them....

Regardless, what is being said in the public....

In addition it is clear Turkey hasn't closed the door on the F-35 at all.......

Turkey hires U.S. lobbying firm to return to F-35 jet program.

By Reuters Staff

QUOTE: ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey has hired a Washington-based law firm to lobby for its readmission to the U.S. F-35 fighter jet programme after it was suspended over its purchase of Russian air defenses, a contract filed with the U.S. Department of Justice showed.

Ankara had ordered more than 100 stealth fighters and has been making parts for their production, but was removed from the programme in 2019 after it bought the Russian S-400 missile defense systems, which Washington says threaten the F-35s.

It has now hired law firm Arnold & Porter for “strategic advice and outreach” to U.S. authorities, in a six-month contract worth $750,000 which started this month.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turk ... SKBN2AJ139