Operational Performance Comparison: Viper, Beagle and Stubby

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

Remember, I had a significant guidance issue before where it was effectively pure pursuit.

Against a MiG-31BM that can theoretically detect the missile (in spite of a M6.5 relative speed) from 16.3nm, begin turning in two seconds, and turn at 2 dps at a 0.5G deceleration (significantly more agile that I was modeling before).

F-22 shot? 60,000ft 1.6M launch from 150nm?--> Hit
Top speed 4.91M. Final speed 3.45M. Total flight range 92nm. Final turn rate/Radius available 11.0dps 17,500ft

** IMPORTANT NOTE** In my previous posts I mentioned the turn radius of the missile being ~18nm or something like that... my sheet readout was 18. I forgot that was in thousand of feet, not nm. I picked the units so they would graph together well.

F-15E(X) shot? 49,000ft 1.4M launch from 150nm?--> Hit
Top speed 4.66M. Final Speed 2.75M. Total flight range 86.5nm. Final turn rate/radius available 8.8dps 17,500ft

F-16 Cruise shot? 36,000ft .9M launch from 130nm? (not under 180s ToF until 137nm)--> Miss
F-16 Cruise shot? 36,000ft .9M launch from 120nm?--> Miss
F-16 Cruise shot? 36,000ft .9M launch from 110nm?--> Miss
F-16 Cruise shot? 36,000ft .9M launch from 100nm?--> Hit
Top speed 4.09M. Final Speed 1.79M. Total flight range 50.6nm. Final turn rate/radius available 5.7dps 17,500ft

So the speed of the MiG and its relative agility compared to its predecessor allows it to be "invulnerable" to shots taken beyond 100nm from a low energy state fighter.

I will work on another chart.

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

Here it is

I added more steps to the new one. My new loft guidance and the new motor are readily apparent especially in the "Raptor shot". In the new speed plot we see vartical lines attached to the end, these are for missiles that reached the MiG within 180s flight time for a launch 150nm away.

[southerncross]

Thanks Spurts

[eloise]

Here it is

The attachment AIM-120D flight profile old-v-new.PNG is no longer available

I added more steps to the new one. My new loft guidance and the new motor are readily apparent especially in the "Raptor shot". In the new speed plot we see vartical lines attached to the end, these are for missiles that reached the MiG within 180s flight time for a launch 150nm away.

These lines represent AMRAAM range versus Foxhound fly in straight line?
Is this graph correct still?

9A04DD98-B2C8-41BB-9F1C-B90E82964E05.png (45.54 KiB) Viewed 41068 times

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

Here it is

AIM-120D flight profile old-v-new.PNG

I added more steps to the new one. My new loft guidance and the new motor are readily apparent especially in the "Raptor shot". In the new speed plot we see vartical lines attached to the end, these are for missiles that reached the MiG within 180s flight time for a launch 150nm away.

These lines represent AMRAAM range versus Foxhound fly in straight line?
Is this graph correct still?

9A04DD98-B2C8-41BB-9F1C-B90E82964E05.png

That chart was for the Meteor. I haven't changed that other than general guidance changes made across the board.

[gta4]

I remember reading somewhere AIM-120A can reach Mach4, while AIM-120C can exceed Mach5.

[botsing]

I remember reading somewhere AIM-120A can reach Mach4, while AIM-120C can exceed Mach5.

Where did you read that and in what context?

[gta4]

I remember reading somewhere AIM-120A can reach Mach4, while AIM-120C can exceed Mach5.

Where did you read that and in what context?

Well, it was not a research paper, but some popular journals (i.e. combat aircraft) that you can purchase at a train station

[n3sk]

The train station??

[gta4]

F22 vs PAK-FA aerodynamic efficiency water tunnel test:

https://www.iaeme.com/MasterAdmin/uploa ... 06_026.pdf

[eloise]

That chart was for the Meteor. I haven't changed that other than general guidance changes made across the board.

HARMs top speed is 2 Mach so base on their relative motor length and size, can your simulator estimate AARGM-ER top speed?. Let say it can't, your educated guess is good enough for me

[mixelflick]

F22 vs PAK-FA aerodynamic efficiency water tunnel test:

https://www.iaeme.com/MasterAdmin/uploa ... 06_026.pdf

Layman cliffs?

The F-22 has greater aerodynamic efficiency, but the PAK FA has better resistance to stall?

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

That chart was for the Meteor. I haven't changed that other than general guidance changes made across the board.

HARMs top speed is 2 Mach so base on their relative motor length and size, can your simulator estimate AARGM-ER top speed?. Let say it can't, your educated guess is good enough for me

My sim can do guided and unguided bombs, but not AG missiles at the moment. Given the increase in range and much faster looking body design I think it goes a bit faster but also burns for longer. A complete WAG though.

[knowan]

I have some relevant charts from declassified documents and Mig-29 manual:

R-27P envelope:


R-27ER envelope:


AIM-7 envelope:


AIM-120A/B envelope:

Edited for clearer view:


RVV-AE/R-77 envelope:


Overlap R-77 and AIM-120A envelope:


Spurt is right, AIM-120A has 30% better range than R-77, no wonder Russian so hesitant to replace R-27 with R-77 and Indian want to replace R-77 with Derby

Could you explain those charts for me, particularly how the R-27 charts compare with the AIM-7, AIM-120 and R-77 charts?

[garrya]

Could you explain those charts for me, particularly how the R-27 charts compare with the AIM-7, AIM-120 and R-77 charts?

For R-27ER and R-27P charts
_ H represents altitude, you can see the have some number with some pointer at the circle, they have 3 altitude marks: 1km -5km-10 km. I highlight these in red color
_ The lines cutting into the circle represents the aspect of the target relative to the shooter, start from the left with 0° meaning it is the head on aspect, end on the right with 180° meaning it is the tail chase situation. I highlight those in purple
_ The horizontal scale at the bottom and the vertical scale in the middle of the chart represent engagement distance. I highlight those in Green
_ The dotted circle represent range when both shooter and target are flying at 1100 km/h, the full circle represent range when shooter and target are both flying at 900 km/h

1F1FC9F0-52BD-4E82-B9A4-707D3AC05B67.png (242.81 KiB) Viewed 46365 times

For R-77,AIM-120A, AIM-7 charts
_ The vertical scale in the middle is the height
_ The horizontal scale at the bottom is range, on the right is head on, on the left is tail chase.
_ They have a little table showing V-max and V-min for each altitude. You can see that higher V-max improve head on range but reduce tail chase range. There is a slight different here, they use m/s instead of km/h like in these R-27 charts

2E3A36EB-4D58-455B-AEEC-F46A047839DF.png (72.22 KiB) Viewed 46364 times