In the 80's a F-15 hits another F-15 with an AIM-9 in Alaska

tbarlow · by **tbarlow** » 23 Dec 2010, 21:10

Does anyone remember an incident in the mid 80's where a F-15 hit another F-15 with an AIM-9 because the pilot did not know that a live one had been loaded on the rail? The incident happened in Alaska.

It was around 1985 and there was a big article in the Air Force Times about it.

I have not been able to find the story...

JoeSambor · by **JoeSambor** » 23 Dec 2010, 23:37

Yeah, Air Force Times had a great article about it. One guy was ferrying a live missile and claimed he didn't know it was live, even though it was written up in the forms and the Crew Chief made a special point of telling him about it. They decided to do a little air-to-air on the way, and he fired the live missile. He radioed the other F-15 "This one's hot" just as it tore through the left vertical tail. The other pilot's reply was "No Sh*t". Both aircraft landed okay, and eventually the damage was repaired. To top it off, some idiots in Congress wanted to know why the aircraft survived the missile shot and wanted a big investigation!

This is all from memory, so if anybody can make it more clear, please do. I will look for the proper links.

Best Regards,

fiskerwad · by **fiskerwad** » 24 Dec 2010, 02:39

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

1990 maybe?
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fiskerwad · by **fiskerwad** » 24 Dec 2010, 02:46

fiskerwad wrote:http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB0EEDEC6F1DFD5&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

1990 maybe?
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Also here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A966958260
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tbarlow · by **tbarlow** » 24 Dec 2010, 04:09

It was mid 80's, I was still at Hahn at the time it happened. Seeing Joe Sambor's response if I remember now part of the story, they were flying
another F-15 to Galina to do a swap out. They had a Sidewinder go bad
up there, so a weapons officer figured hang alive one on the jet since it
was going that way anyway. The loaders loaded it as ordered. The pilot was never told about alive one going up to Galina on his jet. The pilot did his walk around, even shook the missle. On the way to Galina, they
did an intercept on each other. The one pilot got the tone and was in
for a big suprise. The other F-15 pulled up into the sun and the missle
blew up taking out one engine and one of the tails off. The damaged F-15 was able to land.

Because the training missles only had a blue band on them, the next
couple we got were all blue.

If I also remember, the story said the wing commander was fired over
the phone while in bed.

fiskerwad · by **fiskerwad** » 24 Dec 2010, 06:03

Still looking, the only mishap that sounds like the one you are describing is this one:

On March 19, 1990, an Elmendorf F-15 was accidentally hit by an
AIM-9M missile fired from another Air Force jet, causing extensive
damage to the tail section and moderate damage to the left wing and
engine exhaust.

The pilot, Lt. Col. Jimmy L. Harris, said he was sure the
accident was going to be counted as a Class A. He was almost right.

The cost of repairing the aircraft was fixed at $992,058, or
$7,942 short of being a Class A.

Delk said the accident easily could have been estimated at more
than $1 million had the cost of the replacement tail been included,
but the Air Force didn't charge itself for the tail because it came
from another F-15 that had crashed earlier on a nearby
mountainside.

``You know they tend to write things off when they're
in-house,'' he said.

Maj. Gen. Francis C. Gideon Jr., commander of the Air Force
Safety Center at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., said he could not
determine if the service calculated the cost of the F-15 tail in
the repair cost.

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mckenzy7 · by **mckenzy7** » 06 Aug 2011, 00:23

I saw a picture of the aircraft, the left nozzle was blown off the aircraft and the horizontal and vertical stab had a lot of holes in it.

leumas · by **leumas** » 06 Aug 2011, 02:07

Is it possible to put a live sidewinder on a jet in a way that it can't be fired?

JoeSambor · by **JoeSambor** » 06 Aug 2011, 10:08

I would guess just disconnect the umbilical...

From the NYT:

Jet Pilot Accidentally Fired Live Missile, Air Force Says

AP
Published: June 29, 1990

The pilot of an F-15 fighter jet did not know he had a live missile aboard until he fired it at another plane during a practice dogfight, causing nearly $1 million damage, the Air Force said today.

The pilot was suspended from flying, and several other personnel were transferred to other duties. The incident occurred March 19 while the two F-15s from Elmendorf Air Force Base were flying to to King Salmon.

One jet was carrying one practice missile and one armed AIM-9M Sidewinder, the Air Force said.

Best Regards,

mckenzy7 · by **mckenzy7** » 09 Aug 2011, 22:29

Back then the F-15 would have had the LAU-114 launcher on it, live missiles that were on ferry flights had a laucher safety pin install and safetywire inplace to prevent firing.

TC · by TC » 10 Aug 2011, 03:00

leumas wrote:Is it possible to put a live sidewinder on a jet in a way that it can't be fired?

Yeah. Just don't arm up the missile. Current regs instruct crewmembers to always be at minimum, two switches away from actual weapons employment. It's perfectly fine to practice, even with live missiles on board, but for every action that leads to ordnance being launched, you simply simulate that checklist item.

huggy · by **huggy** » 25 May 2012, 07:26

What ever happened to the Lt that shot his flight lead in this story?

maddog2840 · by **maddog2840** » 06 Aug 2013, 06:59

Anyone have a tail number?

maddog2840 · by **maddog2840** » 06 Aug 2013, 07:10

81-0054, that was quick.

msgt46270 · by **msgt46270** » 04 Dec 2014, 22:40

I was stationed at Elmendorf AFB in 1991 and I walking into the hanger and saw this F15 damaged. I was told it was shot at by an AIM-9 missile and that the aircrew flew the jet back.

I was a weapons loader in the Air Force and I talked to a lot of people first hand about what happened. I made TSgt and became the weapons expeditor six months after be assigned to the 54th FS. I later made MSgt and was the Assist NCOIC. I retired in 1997.

The weapons crew chief (Jeff Lang) that loaded the missile told me that there was a training aim9 and a live aim9 on the jet. The live aim9 was being flown to King Salmon (alert post). He said he wrote in the aircraft forms that there was a live missile and a training missile on the jet, he also told the pilot himself. The crew chief for the jet also to the pilot and the people at EOR also told the pilot.

After the investigation, the weapons crew was blamed for everything. The F-15 weapons T.O. also failed to say that you can't load a training missile and a live missile on the same aircraft. I spent 15 years on the F-4C/E/G and the T.O. stated this in the general safety requirements that you couldn't do this.

The aircrews for both F15's were cleared of any wrong doing and the pilot that fired the missile was promoted later on to Capt. Life as a weapons load was hell, you had to write everything in the aircraft forms. What you had loaded, what station, live or enert.

Jeff Lang was a good crew chief and one of my go to guys. We went on a TDY to Luke AFB and Jeff got sick and a few weeks later died of a brain aneurysm. His wife was pregnant and had a baby boy after Jeff had passed away. RIP my friend.

Ed, MSgt, USAF, Retired