F-15EX

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

It's interesting that the USAF (i.e. ANG) is the only customer for the F-15EX. Yet, they already want to cut back their order.


Funny, that hardly anybody talks about that........

Not exactly. The Saudi and Qatar already funded most of the development and the Isrealis are on the line for them too, just minus the EPAWSS.

[Corsair1963]

It's interesting that the USAF (i.e. ANG) is the only customer for the F-15EX. Yet, they already want to cut back their order.


Funny, that hardly anybody talks about that........

Not exactly. The Saudi and Qatar already funded most of the development and the Isrealis are on the line for them too, just minus the EPAWSS.

While, the F-15EX is clearly related to the earlier F-15SA (Saudi) and F-15QA (Qatar). They don't have any new export orders either....and Israel has rejected the type. (F-15EX)


It's worth noting that the whole reason for acquiring the F-15EX was for a quick replacement of the retiring F-15Cs. Yet, so far at least all of the retiring F-15Cs within the USAF have been replaced with the F-35As. While, the ANG is pretty much 50/50.....(again so far)

My guess is sooner or later the F-15EXs will just supplement and/or replace some of the remaining F-15Es still in US Inventory.

[garrya]

I want to address this part the most. Coming out at the same time does not make them equal. The F-35 program funded the APG-81 and it became a no-holds barred system of systems that forced the F-22 to upgrade its radar to keep up. The F/A-18E program funded the APG-79 and the ENTIRE basis of the Super Hornet was "look how cheap and affordable we are." If you have to design two identically sized radars but you can afford the more expensive components for one that one will be leaps and bounds better in all aspects. Smaller components that can handle greater throughput and are more heat resistant and be more reliable etc etc etc. These were all factors I have dealt with professionally.

IIRCC, both F-35 and F-18E/F did have to emphasize the affordable aspect(F-35 due to the lesson from F-22). Though I incline to agree with you that APG-81 is better than APG-79. Not only because it has much bigger aperture, but also because it has better central processor. I recalled that APG-81 even won an award for super performance in jamming.
Still APG-82 is supposed to be an upgraded APG-79 rather than an exact replica.

I will also address your infographics. The F-35 has 400KW power generation available, which puts the 150 of the EX to shame.
The EX still has to run the same EW kit (with smaller antennas) as the F-35, so that will not be cheap power wise. That massive mission computer will cost a ton power wise. So either the F-15EX is low on power, or the F-35 has twice as much as it needs.

IMHO, F-35 mission computer + DAS + electronic actuator make it consuming more electrical power than F-15EX. Or F-35 simply has a lot of excess power for future avionics and DEW. Since radar of both aircraft will be hard gated by their cooling capacity. There is no way either of them can even use their radar at more than 30 kW average output
That only change once F-35 get the new three stream engine( because it will double its cooling capacity)

[garrya]

The F-15 doesn't have a higher top speed than an F-22 or F-35, in a combat configuration.

Without CFT, F-15 can have higher top speed

Aperture size isn't the only factor in detection ranges. Power, gain, sensitivity, signal to noise ratio
filtering/signal processing, etc....are all part of the equation, too.

Power, gain, sensitivity, signal to noise ratio are all heavily affected by aperture area.
Regarding signal processing, the newest ICP on F-15EX is two time faster than the current ICP on F-35

https://www.aviationtoday.com/2003/09/0 ... iztOrfhCUk

That will change once the new Harris ICP being intergrated to F-35 in block 4. Then F-35 ICP will be 12.5 times faster than F-15EX ICP

[Corsair1963]

"garrya"
Without CFT, F-15 can have higher top speed

First, the F-15EX would never fly without CFT's. Second, even if it did it would still carry external stores. (weapons and fuel)


In short still not faster than a F-35........

[garrya]

"garrya"
Without CFT, F-15 can have higher top speed

First, the F-15EX would never fly without CFT's. Second, even if it did it would still carry external stores. (weapons and fuel)


In short still not faster than a F-35........

There are several F-15 charts you can look at.
Generally, F-15 loaded with AIM-120 and no CFTs is faster than F-35.

[wrightwing]

"garrya"
Without CFT, F-15 can have higher top speed

First, the F-15EX would never fly without CFT's. Second, even if it did it would still carry external stores. (weapons and fuel)


In short still not faster than a F-35........

There are several F-15 charts you can look at.
Generally, F-15 loaded with AIM-120 and no CFTs is faster than F-35.

The F-15C has never flown faster than M1.4 in combat. Could it fly faster? Yes. But even then it's not going to be flying faster than M1.6 if it hopes to have any range or persistence. This topic has been beaten to death. It simply takes too much fuel to get beyond M1.4, for it to be considered tactically relevant.

[usafr]

Which is why the USAF considers the F-22 Raptor's ability to "cruise" at mach 1.5 a "super" ability worthy of its own special name.

While others achieve < 1.5 super sonic speeds with out a full combat load of weapons and fuel, and only for a short period of time (< 5 min?), the Raptor can do 1.5 routinely and for a much longer time (> 10 min?).

Super Cuise is different from super sonic dash. Only a Raptor can super "cruise".

[f119doctor]

During F-22 flight test exploring the high speed envelope, the F-15C chase planes with centerline tank and empty pylons couldn’t stay anywhere near the test F-22. For the M2 tests, they would cruise out to the Colorado river, accelerate into the supersonic corridor up to the test conditions, and perform the load and flutter tests on the way back towards Edwards AFB. By the time they reached the end of the corridor, the F-15 would be tens of miles behind and wouldn’t be able to rejoin until the F-22 had turned around back to the east. I don’t know if the F-15 chase couldn’t keep up, or if it was just impractical to use that much fuel to try.

[Corsair1963]

There are several F-15 charts you can look at.
Generally, F-15 loaded with AIM-120 and no CFTs is faster than F-35.

The F-15C has never flown faster than M1.4 in combat. Could it fly faster? Yes. But even then it's not going to be flying faster than M1.6 if it hopes to have any range or persistence. This topic has been beaten to death. It simply takes too much fuel to get beyond M1.4, for it to be considered tactically relevant.

Well said........

[Corsair1963]

Which is why the USAF considers the F-22 Raptor's ability to "cruise" at mach 1.5 a "super" ability worthy of its own special name.

While others achieve < 1.5 super sonic speeds with out a full combat load of weapons and fuel, and only for a short period of time (< 5 min?), the Raptor can do 1.5 routinely and for a much longer time (> 10 min?).

Super Cuise is different from super sonic dash. Only a Raptor can super "cruise".

Splitting hairs...So, the F-22 can fly longer and at a higher speed during "supercruise". Yet, that hardly changes the definition.


That is like saying "Supersonic" is really Mach 1.5 or above. While, any aircraft flying less than that is no longer supersonic.

[Corsair1963]

There are several F-15 charts you can look at.
Generally, F-15 loaded with AIM-120 and no CFTs is faster than F-35.

The F-15C has never flown faster than M1.4 in combat. Could it fly faster? Yes. But even then it's not going to be flying faster than M1.6 if it hopes to have any range or persistence. This topic has been beaten to death. It simply takes too much fuel to get beyond M1.4, for it to be considered tactically relevant.

You can make a similar case in payload. The F-15EX doesn't ever carry a 30,000 lbs payload. Could it carry that load? Yes, but like you said it wouldn't be tactically relevant.

This has been the problem with many such debates with the F-35 vs 4th Generation Fighters. That is what is on paper is very different than the actual reality under combat conditions. Which, is the only thing that matters......

[usafr]

Not the same thing at all.

No one said, suggested or came close to even impliying those other airplanes were not traveling at supersonic speeds, just that they were not "cruising without afterburner" anywhere near the speeds or for anywhere near the length of time that a Raptor could.

They (the makers of the other plane) were the ones suggesting their planes had similar capabilities to Raptor by clain they too could supercruise. So the USAF rightly came up with a definition of what they considered to be "super cruise", one only the Raptor could meet and that shut everyone up.

Another win for the USAF and the F-22A Raptor! Ha, ha.

[Corsair1963]

Two Valley military bases being considered for new fighter jets
Rich Rodriguez 1 hr ago

Two Valley military bases are being considered for new fighter jets.

Fresno and Lemoore are the only two west coast bases on the list of four.

The National Guard Bureau wants to add a squadron of F-15EX jets at two of three bases plus a squadron of F-35A jets at one of four bases.

The bases being considered include Fresno's 144th Fighter Wing, Naval Air Station Lemoore, Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Massachusetts, and the NAS Joint Reserve Base in Belle Chasse, Louisiana.

Lemoore is only a candidate for the F-35A not the F-15EX.

The new planes would replace the F-15C/D which pilots from Fresno's 144th fly.

Those jets would be retired due to their age and maintenance costs. One-hundred additional crew members would be needed for the F-15EX and 80 additional team members for the F-35A.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-v ... r-AA10saLW

[Corsair1963]

This source is a little different........

Want new fighter jets flying out of Fresno airport? How to sound off on military plans

The National Guard has scheduled three public meetings as part of an environmental impact statement to consider the possible future assignment of F15-EX and F-35A squadrons at the 144th Fighter Wing in Fresno.

The Guard has proposed to beddown one FA-15EX squadron at two of three possible locations across the country — the Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Mass.; Fresno National Air Guard Base at the Fresno Yosemite International Airport and Naval Air Station Reserve Base in New Orleans in Belle Chasse, La. The bases are also under consideration as a potential location for the F-35A squadron, along with Naval Air Station Lemoore, authorities said in a news release.

The environmental impact statement will assess the consequences of the four bases in support of operations. Areas to be analyzed include noise, biological resources, cultural resources, soils and geology, water resources, infrastructure and transportation, land use, hazardous materials and wastes, health and safety and air quality.

https://www.aol.com/news/fighter-wing-f ... 00835.html