Russian F-35 equivalent at MAKS 2021?

[element1loop]

For a looong time I've been thinking the Russians must be working on something else, that Su57 can not be more than an interim aircraft. This may be it.

[element1loop]

One other thing, F-35A Block 4 with an EFT will certainly out-range an F-15 of any version, and will cruise much faster. F-35A Bk3f can probably do this already, or nearly so, so no one should think of this aircraft as anything but a long-range, fast fighter, that can actually replace the Su35 and Su57.

Providing the engine is up to that, of course ... the biggest proviso.

[milosh]

Think we can forget about that side plus under-aircraft intake suggestion, it's just extrapolating based on the bulge created by an EOTS-ski bulge, and a gear door covering, that's right under the forward-edge of the intake.

Think a chinned angular diverterless-inlet that's closer to a VLO adaptation of a Saab Draken's inlet.

That would be quite cool but it is chin intake:

For a looong time I've been thinking the Russians must be working on something else, that Su57 can not be more than an interim aircraft. This may be it.

I think it is more Ho Lo mix, like JSF and ATF/NGAD is in USAF, Su-59 is more like F-35 but still more design for A-A then A-G, Su-57 is mentioned by constructor as much more multirole then anything they done before and with big weapon bays it can do A-G noticeable better then Su-59.

In that way it is different then USAF aproch where ATF/NGAD would be prime A-A platform while JSF job will be more A-G.

[mixelflick]

Until it gets an official name, I'm going to call this bird "Plan B".

When the first production version of the SU-57 face planted, it had to give them pause. Even now, the 76 on order haven't been fully funded, and its unlikely to secure any foreign buyers/investment. India? That verdict is in, they passed. Egypt? They're already buying the SU-35 so where's the need for 2 heavy fighters? The money? Algeria's name gets thrown around a lot, but it's hard to envision them operating/affording such a jet. China? Doubtful, especially with a true stealth jet of their own in production.

The Felon has been languishing for 10 years. At some point during that process, they would have been smart to proceed with Plan B. A Plan B that like the Fulcrum/Flanker series, might have some foreign buyers some day.

Time will tell if this is it...

[ricnunes]

Competition drives better Jets. If it wasn't for the F-15 and F-16 there would be no Mig-29 and Su-27 and because of them there is now F-22s and F-35s.
...
I wouldn't be so confident in saying this new Russian jet will not be on par or even better than the F-35 once it's fully completed (maybe 5-10 years from now?). The F-35 prototype rolled out some 15 years ago!

With all due respect but I fully disagree with you above.
Look, decades later and the Mig-29 is still inferior (and quite more so and this not to say much more so!) than the F-16 and this despite the Mig-29 being more recent than the F-16!
Also decades later the technological gap between the USA and Russia only got wider and not narrower so I'm 99.99% confident that this new Russian jet will never be superior to the F-35 and note that the F-35 will continue to receive upgrades and I would say that between both aircraft the F-35 has more "room" to grow (having for instance and likely a larger internal weapons bay) than this new jet.

However I do agree that this new Russian jet may have some "cards under to sleeve" that will make it 'competitive' against the F-35 but more on that below.

No matter how you look at it, it's clear that with the J-31 and Mig-41? that the F-35 is going to face some stiff competition.

I agree that the F-35 may face some 'stiff competition' from this new Russian jet but it's not due to the reasons that you hint above - the new Russian jet being more recent and potentially 'better' - but and basically by the contrary:
- As it's starting to look like this new Russian jet will probably be a simpler and even a less performing jet (compared to the F-35) but this would make it much cheaper to purchase and probably to maintain (although Russian jets have always been very 'sketchy' in terms of maintenance) and this would make it available in bigger numbers (compared with other aircraft like the Su-57 or even the J-20). If this is correct and together with being stealthy and with modern sensors (such as AESA radars and integrated IR sensors) may make this aircraft a bigger threat to the F-35 compared to all other potential and opposing threats.
Think about something in the lines of the F-4 against the Mig-21 in the 1960's where the F-4 is the more advanced and superior aircraft while the Mig-21 being the cheaper and simpler but at the same time also having some interesting and 'competitive' features which were enough to give the F-4 some 'major headaches'.
The F-35 would be more or less the F-4 of that era while perhaps this new Russian jet may become the Mig-21 of that era.

Even US allies are making progress that will challenge the F-35.

The technological gap between the USA and these US Allies is much narrower than the same gap between USA and Russia, so no surprise here.

As an American I'm agreeing the F-35 should maintain it's advantage in the near future with block upgrades, but ultimately, just like my favorite bird the F-16, you are stuck with the shell that you can only do so many upgrades without a complete redesign.

Due to the reasons that I mentioned above, I would bet that the upgrade capabilities of this new Russian jet will be more limited compared to the F-35.

[jessmo112]

Iran and Syria are part of the Axis of Sanctions.
Do you think they would be good customers?
Israel would have a fit.

[milosh]

Until it gets an official name, I'm going to call this bird "Plan B".

When the first production version of the SU-57 face planted, it had to give them pause. Even now, the 76 on order haven't been fully funded, and its unlikely to secure any foreign buyers/investment. India? That verdict is in, they passed. Egypt? They're already buying the SU-35 so where's the need for 2 heavy fighters? The money? Algeria's name gets thrown around a lot, but it's hard to envision them operating/affording such a jet. China? Doubtful, especially with a true stealth jet of their own in production.

The Felon has been languishing for 10 years. At some point during that process, they would have been smart to proceed with Plan B. A Plan B that like the Fulcrum/Flanker series, might have some foreign buyers some day.

Time will tell if this is it...

76 Su-57 (maybe some more) isn't small at all. F-22 fleet is only litle more then double of that but some F-22 have defects in bulkheads so their service life is lot shorter and now USAF is considering retiring F-22 to get NGAD, NGAD will not be cheap at all so I doubt they will get more NGAD then F-22 they have.

Russia with its budget can't match USAF numbers so 76 Su-57 are in fact quite high order.

Only one which can really afford lot of heavy stealths is China.

[ricnunes]

Iran and Syria are part of the Axis of Sanctions.
Do you think they would be good customers?
Israel would have a fit.

Well, the list of nations to which the F-35 is "off limits" is HUGE. So in theory the list of potential customers besides Iran and Syria for this new Russian jet should also be huge. Obviously the vast majority of these potential customers would only be able to buy a dozen or even less of such aircraft but then again the list would be huge:
- Basically most African nations, many South American/Latin America nations and many Asian countries (like for instance North Korea) could also become potential customers.
For what's worth, they could even try India again.

[milosh]

Okey here is short video of uncover mockup:
https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1416751162645172227

Sleek design which show how X-32 could look like if there wasn't STOVL requirment or if they done different stovl solution.

[gideonic]

Okey here is short video of uncover mockup:
https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1416751162645172227

Sleek design which show how X-32 could look like if there wasn't STOVL requirment or if they done different stovl solution.

Milosh beat me to it, some additional commentary from theDEWLine:

https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1 ... 8411963397

[mixelflick]

Okey here is short video of uncover mockup:
https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1416751162645172227

Sleek design which show how X-32 could look like if there wasn't STOVL requirment or if they done different stovl solution.

Oh man, if it really is just a wood mockup that's going to be disappointing. Still, with little domestic $ to develop it makes sense. I suppose if nothing else, it lets us know where their engineering teams are headed. At least insofar as figuring out JSF like problems. I'd say this would need a LOT of work (and $) to be an F-35ski, but at least they're trying...

If I were a prospective foreign investor though, I'd look at what happened with India/the SU-57 and..... not encouraging. It's looking more and more like whatever money India put into it, got them.... nothing.

[milosh]

Oh man, if it really is just a wood mockup that's going to be disappointing. Still, with little domestic $ to develop it makes sense. I suppose if nothing else, it lets us know where their engineering teams are headed. At least insofar as figuring out JSF like problems. I'd say this would need a LOT of work (and $) to be an F-35ski, but at least they're trying...

If I were a prospective foreign investor though, I'd look at what happened with India/the SU-57 and..... not encouraging. It's looking more and more like whatever money India put into it, got them.... nothing.

I doubt it is wooden mockup but I also doubt it is flying prototype, maybe static prototype?

JSF problems could happen if they design it to be like JSF, three different versions, lot of roles etc.

If they just focus on CTOL with air to air and antiship role (EOTSski photo and antiship missile behind mockup/prototype) then its development wouldn't be that hard.

Btw it is already hinted UAE was early investor, and those roles are what they need. Also users of Flanker which have problems in SCS with China also put such roles at top of list.

Those roles imply it was export project because Russia already have superb antiship capability (Kindzal and Zircon).

[zero-one]

Sneek peak gents. Posting the Twitter photos from above here

[zhangmdev]

If what in front of the main landing gear bay is the weapon bay. It is too short and too narrow. Placing weapon bays so far forward makes it difficult to carry a heavy load. An F-32 can only carry two short range AA missiles internally would never work.

[milosh]

If what in front of the main landing gear bay is the weapon bay. It is too short and too narrow. Placing weapon bays so far forward makes it difficult to carry a heavy load. An F-32 can only carry two short range AA missiles internally would never work.

Those side frontal bays are probable for SRAAM or some other smaller weapon.

There is probable central weapon bay but we need to wait, Rostec mentioned more info will be publish in midnight.