F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

blain2 · by **blain2** » 22 Nov 2005, 23:16

IndianAirForce wrote:No way is the JF-17 going to win. It is just a cheaper altenative to the F-16.
The F-16 has proven itself in combat. It's just common sense, the F-16 will win

It wins for the PAF because it allows the PAF to replace all of her Mirages and F-7s with new airframes which have a fully mated BVR capability and a radar that may potentially exceed the capabilities of the blk 15 F-16s in service currently. In terms of a comparison between the viper and JF-17, its probably not needed as the PAF itself sees the JF-17 to be the 2nd tier behind its mainstay of F-16s which will hopefully increase in #s in the near future.

Corous · by **Corous** » 11 May 2006, 02:02

In an engagement, an F-16 block 40 or higher would win for sure. The reason being the SD-10 is semi-active. Now, if the PL-12 ( I'd like to call it the AMRAAMLing, and yes, I'm trademarking the term. ) ever gets into production or if AA-12-carrying capability is added to the JF-17, that could be a different story.

The JF-17 is meant to be in the same class as the F-5 anyway. The real perk for Pakistan is that they get the know-how of the whole process of designing, manufacturing and testing an aircraft. They also get to assemble half of their order IIRC.

RoAF · by **RoAF** » 11 May 2006, 09:55

SD-10 is the export name of the PL-12, it has active radar guidance and it is into production.
The real value of the JF-17/FC-1 for the Pakistanis is its BVR capability, along with the fact that they need a (comparatively) cheap plane to replace their Mirage III/5 and A-5.

Corous · by **Corous** » 11 May 2006, 19:56

RoAF wrote:SD-10 is the export name of the PL-12, it has active radar guidance and it is into production.
The real value of the JF-17/FC-1 for the Pakistanis is its BVR capability, along with the fact that they need a (comparatively) cheap plane to replace their Mirage III/5 and A-5.

Hmmm, okay I keep thinking the SD-10 is the export version of the PL-10, which is SARH. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that one up.

PRINCEBUSTER0 · by **PRINCEBUSTER0** » 13 May 2006, 23:01

Corous wrote:
RoAF wrote:SD-10 is the export name of the PL-12, it has active radar guidance and it is into production.
The real value of the JF-17/FC-1 for the Pakistanis is its BVR capability, along with the fact that they need a (comparatively) cheap plane to replace their Mirage III/5 and A-5.

Hmmm, okay I keep thinking the SD-10 is the export version of the PL-10, which is SARH. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that one up.

No,SD-10 is a full active radar guidance that guidance head is name of AMR-1.LONG:3850mm，Diameter: 203mm，Span: 674mm，WEIGHT: 180KG ROOF: 25km RANGE:70km SPEED:M4 The greatest overload:38G China experts think SD-10 as well as PL-12,but it is lower than PL-12 at other aspects.

saker-hawk · by **saker-hawk** » 15 Jun 2006, 07:54

Heres a video of the old prototypes for the Jf-17. Not really very agile but lets wait and see what the DSI intakes plus the huge F-18 style LERXs can do for it. Still pretty neat.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 123&q=fc+1

On the other hand the LCA looking very impressive but the flights are dissapointing. No manuvers nothing. Can anyone provide better videos for both these aircrafts.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5406&q=lca

Right now none of these fighters can stand upto the Viper, but Chinese progress on the JF-17 and J-10 seems promising. Considering the cost of these jets except for the LCA in large numbers they can form a good airforce.

Can anyone also provide links videos of F-16s manuvering just like there are clips of F-18 and mirages on the net. Would be really appreciated.

saker-hawk · by **saker-hawk** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:45

From the outside the pure Asthetics and Bird of Prey curves of the Viper beat the cheap Jf-17 but the inside looks pretty neat and Pakistan F-16s are quite old, the new cockpits of the Jf-17 will be a welcome for the pilots even if that acceleration and pitch performance is not there.

DSI did turn this ugly duckling into a swan.

NOTE THE EXTENDED LERXs

Now the INside

Someone seems happy with this poor mans viper. :twisted:

Viper786 · by **Viper786** » 27 Jun 2006, 01:20

JF-17 has potential it can probably beat a F-16 block 40 or older, but imagine if it had latest avionics with AWACS or AMRAAM it'll be a fair fight then

RoAF · by **RoAF** » 27 Jun 2006, 12:53

JF-17 has potential it can probably beat a F-16 block 40 or older

And this assumption is based on what?
Please define "older" - the MLU is older than the Block 40, but more capable

Viper786 · by **Viper786** » 28 Jun 2006, 04:37

or blocks below it, only because it will have some western avionics in it which will help boost the JF-17, but its manuverability is pretty good for its class of a fighter prolly one the best in its class

RoAF · by **RoAF** » 28 Jun 2006, 11:49

prolly one the best in its class

Not really. The Gripen outperforms it in every way: weapons, avionics, maneuverability, maintainability...

saker-hawk · by **saker-hawk** » 01 Jul 2006, 19:47

Oh yeah , can it toss a nuclear bomb. I guess not. Well you can count on JF-17 having this capability given the fact it will become the workhorse of PAF ,replacing the A-5 and Mirages. Plus with the Erieye on Saab 2000 ordered with datalinks for this baby and SD-10 and Amraams from Uncle this Jf-17 will turn into a hell of a fighter. Although its range will be worse than a Mig-29 (well it uses one same RD-93 tweaked RD-33 engine of a Mig-29). So even if the Gripen performs better ,well takin cost and other factors into account Jf-17 is far better than Gripen. By the way PAF has been testing Gripens for years and it comes short on their requirements.

Oh PAF recently ordered 36 BLK-50+ f-16c/DS . THis will give it an awesome ground attack capability , sustained CAP capabilty and what do you say with the given goodies mentioned above PAF will be a hell of a force. OH they ordered Mk84 usual, Blu-109s for hard targets. They ordered Amraam 5Cs and AIm9s.

On top of all this PAF will induct the J-10 which will take care of the Indian MKI in conjunction with the F-16 BLK 50.

RoAF · by **RoAF** » 02 Jul 2006, 06:58

saker-hawk, let's see first if the US congress approves the deal in this exact configuration.
One major component is missing from the goodies asked for by PAF - a modern off-boresight WWR missile. They did order JHMCS, but only AIM-9M-8/9.
Not good enough considering the Indians have MICA and R-73, and will get Python 4 for the MKIs.

blain2 · by **blain2** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:17

RoAF wrote:saker-hawk, let's see first if the US congress approves the deal in this exact configuration.
One major component is missing from the goodies asked for by PAF - a modern off-boresight WWR missile. They did order JHMCS, but only AIM-9M-8/9.
Not good enough considering the Indians have MICA and R-73, and will get Python 4 for the MKIs.

It does not matter if the current order does not include AIM-9x. Obviously there will be a certain delay in getting the 9x out to countries that are not 1st tier US allies. However, the JHMCS is great to have for the delivery of A2G munitions as well. AIM-9x is less sensitive geo-politically than AIM-120C5 so in a bit of time, PAF will get AIM-9x as well. The whole idea behind US administration holding things back in certain situations is if a particular capability has not been inducted in the region...if it has then eventually US also ...since IAF already has this capability, The HOBS solution will happen with AIM-9x for PAF as well. The precedence is already there...ALR -> ALR, Phalcon-> Erieye, R77-> AIM120...so on and so forth.

Viper786 · by **Viper786** » 05 Jul 2006, 02:17

lol alright so every ones saying that F-16 is a proven aircraft, so 5 years down the road when the JF-17 is relesed, and what if it happens to be better then F-16 then, plus plus there are many open areas for improvements and many blocks to come im sure of that