ANG F16 Units getting the 'axe'

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contraildash

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Unread post18 Nov 2004, 07:25

It's going to happen for sure... anyone know what states are loosing their jets???
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elp

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Unread post18 Nov 2004, 17:02

Disadvantage: The Guard is so political



Advantage: The Guard is so political




The feds can only p!ss off the states so much before you get voter backlash and or govenor angst. Me thinks many of them in this post 9/11 world ain't going to give it up. Airliners still have to be shot down. And more times than not, it is an F-16 that makes the intercept.

Not to mention that the Sec USAF is gone.

Sec USAFs and Sec Defs come and go, but the Guard is always there: :twisted: :D

All in all, you should always write your state reps ( even to say hi and good job and such as well as the bad times when you really need them ). They are always happy to hear from a valued voter/contributor.....er I mean a loyal / concerned statesman such as yourself. :lol:
- ELP -
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mohody

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Unread post18 Nov 2004, 19:21

What I can make out from the chicken scratch on the wall is that if you're a fighter unit in a multi-unit state it might be time to start getting nervous. When you have aging aircraft issues (our ADF birds for example) without new ones on the way to replace them you have to start looking at cutting back on the number of units you have.

Although it's not written into law it's pretty much mandated that every state will have an ANG unit. I have heard that BRAC is looking at cutting back fighter units on the Guard/Reserve side of things. That leaves states like Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Texas, California, and others open to getting one or more of their fighter squadrons shut down to keep the heavys open. This would free-up newer aircraft for states like us (North Dakota) that have only one squadron.

I agree with ELP about the politics of the Guard, it can be our greatest asset----but it leaves us room to shoot ourselves in the foot!!!
Avionics--Venom of the Viper
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elp

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Unread post18 Nov 2004, 21:48

A possible political compromise? A reduction of total F-16 airframes in a Guard wing/group/squadron ( yeah I know guard units already don't have a high quantity of airframes on hand ). This combined with any full blown removal of F-16s from a unit could reduce the pain?

I still see a lot of political hay to be made in this.Example: we are in the middle of a major war of unusual consiquences at home and abroad, yet we are cutting one of the most cost effective, bang-for-the buck jets we have ....all while budget spending is never less of an issue? As for the air defense mod'd old jets. I don't have much use for a jet that can't do air to ground well without issues, so can them. Again without ranting on why it is important to cancel the JSF, ... we are missing an opportunity to keep a vaulable yet cost effective weapons system going and going. Retire Block 3x and below.... get more if not all the Blk 4x into the Guard ( and reserve ) and block 5x where doable... and get a USAF specification Block 6X into the field. That is cheap money and bang for the buck.
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contraildash

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Unread post19 Nov 2004, 06:51

I know some units have had to convert in the past...Iowa used to have 2 F-16 SQ's..pretty sure one of them went to tankers.

As far as states like Texas and California...I doubt they'd lose any fighter assests since they are an immediate part of our ADZ (is that the right term?) And you wonder why states like Iowa needed two squadrons...

I think the point of the brief I sat in on was that the ANG is part of an overall force transformation in which some units will loose jets, others may gain a few. And while they wouldnt come out and say which states are loosing fighter assets, I can say from talking to many units about UPT slots, it makes you wonder why some suddenly canceled their UPT boards this year.
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IDCrewDawg

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Unread post19 Nov 2004, 10:24

Unfortunately from what I understand they are not buying 16's for the US anymore. If that is the case, then there would be a natural scale back of available aircraft so that we can get parts from somewhere untill the replacement airframe is online. We have been doing this with the A-10 for years.
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trailmix

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Unread post19 Nov 2004, 18:53

any chance of going to the 22 or the 35? I dont think they'll be scrubbing ALL of the units, I mean, a good offense is a strong defense, right?

~mix
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Vypergrl

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Unread post30 Nov 2004, 19:20

I know that Virginia (192nd) is most likely headed to Langley and will be losing their F-16's. Its sad...but better to merge than to die out completely.

Cheers.
"In this game of tag...I'll be the aggressor, watch your six"
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TC

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Unread post02 Dec 2004, 06:12

What part of VA is the 192nd assigned to, and what a/c will they gain if they lose their Vipers?

If you want my take on this, it is BS politics, plain and simple. Whomever will fight the hardest to keep their jets, most likely will. Those who drop the ball in Congress...well...enjoy your second-hand KC-135s, or C-130s.

Something I never understood...why do Guard units give up a small fighter, and bring in a huge transport? You have to change/retrain personell, bring in new, or retool old equipment, sometimes change the facilities around your airfield, and if you're talking about giving up fighters for heavies, then you will have to bring in extra crewmembers, which takes up more Guard slots. Now, did any of this make sense? No? Well, I guess it does to some folks in Kansas, as they seem to love to play "Musical Airplanes" at the McConnell Guard unit. Ok, I can see switching from F-105s to Vipers. That made sense. The Thud was ready to retire, and switching from a fighter to another fighter is fine. Then, they went from Vipers to BONEs. Now, I believe they've switched from BONEs to 135s. I just don't get it.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
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contraildash

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Unread post02 Dec 2004, 07:34

Rumour has it that the guys in Richmond (192nd) are moving to Langley and are going to become a joint ANG/active duty unit flying F-22's. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
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LinkF16SimDude

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Unread post02 Dec 2004, 19:07

An Air Guard unit flyin' the latest and greatest USAF hot rod? WOW! That would be interesting! But then again the McEntire unit got brand spankin' new Block 52s after flyin' Block 10s for so many years, so I suppose it's not entirely unprecedented.
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kmceject

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Unread post02 Dec 2004, 21:20

contraildash, Good rumor. See <a href="http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2004/n12022004_2004120205.html">Air Force Introduces Future Total Force Concept</a>, a just released article on this very topic!

Kevin
The Ejection Site
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Ace02

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Unread post03 Dec 2004, 02:26

Vyprgrl, TC the 192nd is at the Richmond IAP (-grl knows that, lol) and I'm not sure about details but word I heard at our (Air Force Asociation) convention in September was that yes, there is indeed interest in having the unit go to F/A-22s. Co-locating them at Langley would make sense... I guess. However, I don't think that anyone there is packing their bags just yet!

And if I can be so bold as to hype my magazine ... the Dec. issue has a photo essay on the 192nd and the unit from MI that fly the recce pod. Thanks to both units for being a great help!

http://www.afa.org/magazine/magz.asp

Story is pdf only because of the pics ... that's the way they like to put it out.

Happy reading
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chickenlegs

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Unread post03 Dec 2004, 04:58

There continues to be strong conversation on the integration of Guard and Active duty working together on active duty airfields. IMHO I feel that this is going to happen but of course many obstacles will need to be ironed out. Who will be in charge? A guard bum or an active officer. A guard technician force will remain with the fighters for a long period of time thus maintaining the experience level. Not to say that our active counterparts won't or can't maintain equal skills. However, in reducing the F-16 population, and as I said in another forum, there aren't going to be as many replacement aircraft as there are today. No doubt in my mind that the continued AEF rotations will get longer and longer and longer..................
Sincerely,
A Guard Bum
F-4E, T-38, A-7D, F-16C Crew Chief, QA, & Other
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TC

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Unread post03 Dec 2004, 06:29

That was at least attempted at Tyndall a couple years ago. The 142nd from Jacksonville (FANG) would come to Tyndall, and fly with the 325th FW. We do have Guard pilots who fly with our 3 F-15 squadrons. None are in the 43rd FS (our F/A-22 FTU) at least as of yet. I'm sure that's still several years off, but you are talking to a "fly in the window" so to speak. It's a good deal for our F-15 guys. They, and the JAX guys get to train with each other, and everyone seems to feel that it helps bring a new insight into how the other guys train. You know, the what are you doing better than me, and what I am I doing better than you, and how can we make each other better kinds of things. As I said before though, if the Guard really is serious about downsizing in the Viper department, at least replace them with a comparable jet. Totally undignified to switch from a fast mover to a trash hauler.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
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