F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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Corsair1963

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Unread post15 Mar 2021, 06:58

weasel1962 wrote:As the article notes, most of USN action are low sortie rate ones e.g. persian gulf action against ISIS ~10 sortie per day. Sending a CVN with a 160-270 sortie per day rate capability is an overkill (though the Navy will justify it as training since only wartime will we ever see even remotely close to 160 sorties per day).



Then just substitute a LHA/LHD with F-35B's. Oh, that is what they do right now......... :wink:
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Unread post16 Mar 2021, 12:37

LHD similar to juan Carlos and Trieste offer a lot of capability for a "decent" cost however they are still out of price range for many countries.

NATO offers a mechanism whereby several small countries band together and purchase expensive equipment, this has been done for AWACS and tankers by European NATO countries.

The global warming, China and other developments point to an undefined future, making planning very hard. China does have global ambitions, and it has already started showing an interest in the arctic region, where NATO currently have few bases.

I suggest that an LHD developed with arctic conditions in mind (e.g. ice class similar to the Norwegian cost guard ships (up to 100 cm thick ice, etc.).

Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands and Norway could contribute, and buy a number of LHD, each equipped with several F-35B and loyal wingmen, and potentially "marines" for land operations. In particular Canada and the Netherlands have or will have very potent frigates (quasi destroyers) that can protect an amphibious task group. Subs is more of an issue, perhaps the UK can contribute. Split between so many countries it should be realistic to buy 6-8 LHD specifically designed for arctic conditions.

This proposal would also "force" some NATO countries to move closer to their promised 2% NATO spending goal...
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Unread post22 Mar 2021, 08:35

Aircraft carrier tech offered to South Korea as Royal Navy extends horizons
21 Mar 2021 Alan Tovey

"Technology from the Royal Navy’s new aircraft carriers is being offered to South Korea as the country beefs up its military. Advanced systems and designs developed by the “carrier alliance” of Babcock, BAE Systems and Thales to deliver the UK’s two Queen Elizabeth-class vessels could be exported to the south-east Asian nation as the UK steps up efforts to reap the financial benefits of constructing the 65,000-tonne ships....

...In 2019, Korea announced a 290 trillion won (£180bn) defence spending spree over five years that included adding an aircraft carrier capable of handling F-35B jets, though it envisaged a smaller vessel than the Queen Elizabeth class, which also operates advanced fighter jets. The Royal Navy carriers have pioneered automated systems which reduce the number of crew they need, making them more efficient. One such invention is a highly mechanised weapons handling system, which lifts bombs and missiles from arsenals deep inside the ship up to the flight deck.

Developments like this mean the Queen Elizabeth and her sister ship Prince of Wales have crews of just 700 to operate them, rising to 1,600 when the air wing is included. By comparison, the US Nimitz-class carriers require 3,000 sailors to get under way and a further 1,800 to operate their aircraft.

Peter Sandeman, director of analyst group Navy Lookout [formerly SaveTheRoyalNavy], said: “A proposal has been floating around of a scaled-down carrier using the twin-island design from the Queen Elizabeth. “The new technology in the Navy’s new carriers, like the ammunition handling, aircraft lifts, the electric power system, is what Korea is interested in as that’s the really hard stuff.”...

Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... y-extends/
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Unread post31 Mar 2021, 01:33

'Coarse Air fella' seems to have prognosticated OK: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20426&p=451388&hilit=light+carrier#p451388
New Small Aircraft Carrier Unlikely, Admiral Says As US Navy Begins New Assessment
30 Mar 2021 Marcus Weisgerber

"Air warfare chief: “I believe the L-class ships operating with the F-35B fit that bill.” The U.S. Navy likely has no need to add a proposed small-deck aircraft carrier to its existing amphibious assault ships, a top admiral said Tuesday ahead of a formal review of the concept.

“I believe the L-class ships operating with the F-35B fit that bill,” Rear Adm. Gregory Harris, who leads his service’s air warfare division at the Pentagon, said during a virtual Navy League event Tuesday. “Others would disagree and that's OK. I think the beautiful part of any study is that it'll take the most current data.” L-class ships include the Wasp- and America-class amphibious assault ships (LHDs and LHAs)....

...The Navy is preparing to launch a formal review — called an analysis of alternatives — that will look at options for a light aircraft carrier and the type of ship that replaced the Ford-class, the never class of supercarriers...." [I like the way the admirable [yes I know] has forecast the result] :roll:

Source: https://www.defenseone.com/business/202 ... nt/173024/
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Unread post31 Mar 2021, 02:48

Hardly, surprising......
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Unread post18 Apr 2021, 21:32

WOLF ATC & Landing Systems experts, F-35 Pax River ITF engineers certify carrier landing system aboard Italian carrier
16 Apr 2021 International Programs deputy program manager Public Affairs Officer

"...In March, the Naval Air Traffic Management System Program Office (PMA-213) wrapped up key Precision Approach Landing Systems (PALS) certifications for the Italian aircraft carrier ITS Cavour (CVH 550) while the ship was underway off the U.S. eastern seaboard for F-35B developmental flight tests with the F-35 Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (Pax River ITF). Led by the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) Air Traffic Control and Landing Systems (ATC&LS) Division, a team from PMA-213 boarded Cavour with the F-35 Pax River ITF test team.

The PMA-213 team, who work at Webster Outlying Field (WOLF), embarked in February under COVID-19 restrictions, and conducted their certification with the help of an F-35C that flew to the ship from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23. Once underway, the PMA-213 team waited for a break in the ITF’s developmental flight testing to perform the PALS certification for the Joint Precision Approach Landing Systems (JPALS) [seems two things are conflated here?] and the SPN-41B instrument carrier landing system (ICLS).

NAWCAD ATC&LS Division’s Katie Prelog, team lead for the trip aboard Cavour, and Kevin Hinton and Jeanette Frisbey, NAWCAD ATC&LS technicians, said while underway their mission included a functional check of the system, running 11 different tests designed to check all operational capabilities. It also included aligning the system, which required an aircraft.

With the F-35C overhead, Prelog and Hinton stood in Cavour’s Carrier Air Traffic Control Center (CATCC), sandwiched between the SPN-720 precision approach radar consoles of Final 1 and Final 2, to input glideslope adjustments for the SPN-41B unit. Neil Winston, ATC&LS flight test engineer from the F-35 Pax River ITF Basing and Ship Suitability team, joined them to perform the Category III certification, which required flight testing of the system.

Prelog said with the successful completion of flight procedures for JPALS and SPN-41B on Cavour, “we are recommending to the ship that they certify both the JPALS and the SPN-41B systems.” Following the certification, Winston sent a recommendation letter to Cavour’s leaders. The report contains a summary of results from the flight testing, and a recommendation for, among other items, when to have the system recertified....

...Italy’s JPALS procurement marks the first international sale of the JPALS system which, when paired with SPN-41B, provides unprecedented landing capability for coalition partners operating F-35s at sea, Watking said.

“This is critical to attaining international interoperability amongst the F-35 partner and customer nations, and paves the way for future sales of JPALS for use with other aircraft platforms and in other operational situations,” said Casey Edinger, PMA-213 International Programs deputy program manager."

Source: https://www.navair.navy.mil/news/WOLF-A ... ing-system
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Unread post19 Apr 2021, 03:26

Spaz, a PALS certification is a formal process by which NAVAIR certifies the use of different precision approach systems for fleet use; JPALS is but one specific kind of precision approach system. There are others, eg SPN-41.
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Unread post19 Apr 2021, 04:10

'PALS certification' is an" umbrella term then. IF Lower includes higher & I reckon HIGHER can include lower certification.
Last edited by spazsinbad on 19 Apr 2021, 09:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post19 Apr 2021, 07:57

spazsinbad wrote:
Aircraft carrier tech offered to South Korea as Royal Navy extends horizons
21 Mar 2021 Alan Tovey

"Technology from the Royal Navy’s new aircraft carriers is being offered to South Korea as the country beefs up its military. Advanced systems and designs developed by the “carrier alliance” of Babcock, BAE Systems and Thales to deliver the UK’s two Queen Elizabeth-class vessels could be exported to the south-east Asian nation as the UK steps up efforts to reap the financial benefits of constructing the 65,000-tonne ships....

...In 2019, Korea announced a 290 trillion won (£180bn) defence spending spree over five years that included adding an aircraft carrier capable of handling F-35B jets, though it envisaged a smaller vessel than the Queen Elizabeth class, which also operates advanced fighter jets. The Royal Navy carriers have pioneered automated systems which reduce the number of crew they need, making them more efficient. One such invention is a highly mechanised weapons handling system, which lifts bombs and missiles from arsenals deep inside the ship up to the flight deck.

Developments like this mean the Queen Elizabeth and her sister ship Prince of Wales have crews of just 700 to operate them, rising to 1,600 when the air wing is included. By comparison, the US Nimitz-class carriers require 3,000 sailors to get under way and a further 1,800 to operate their aircraft.

Peter Sandeman, director of analyst group Navy Lookout [formerly SaveTheRoyalNavy], said: “A proposal has been floating around of a scaled-down carrier using the twin-island design from the Queen Elizabeth. “The new technology in the Navy’s new carriers, like the ammunition handling, aircraft lifts, the electric power system, is what Korea is interested in as that’s the really hard stuff.”...

Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... y-extends/


It's worthwhile noting that the recently released CSG21 route for the HMS Queen Elizabeth includes exercises with ROKN and JSDF vessels.....industry have also been told that there will be port visits to both countries....and India.
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Unread post19 Apr 2021, 08:08

You would think both India and South Korea would be on the list for port calls. Plus, what about Australia??? Hard to believe the HMS Queen Elizabeth would exclude them.....
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Unread post19 Apr 2021, 09:10

Apparently there are three options - perhaps best sourced in the UK carrier thread?

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=452728&hilit=anyfink#p452728
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Unread post19 Apr 2021, 10:46

QUOTE:


Which way home?

Although the deployment is slated to last around 6 months it is unclear exactly by what route the group will return to the UK after operations off Japan. There are essentially 3 options. 1) circumnavigation of the globe, ie, crossing the Pacific, round Cape Horn and into the South Atlantic. This is probably unlikely this requires a long time at sea and diplomatic benefits are limited. 2) Head South from Japan, possibly visiting Australia or even New Zealand but then return home roughly the way they came via Suez and the Mediterranean. 3) Return on the westerly route but via Africa, rounding the Cape of Good Hope and visiting West African nations. Option two would seem to be the most likely.
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 01:31

ANADOLU article here because it is now separate from any F-35B issues but ANADOLU used to be designed for such use. However this Hürjet idea is fanciful and dangerously stupid at the same time. Hürjet pilots will have to be magicians.
Turkey Plans to Deploy Indigenous Aircraft ‘Hürjet’ on LHD Anadolu
20 Apr 2021 Tayfun Ozberk

"After Turkey was taken out of the F-35 aircraft program because of CAATSA sanctions imposed by the United States, it has been trying to develop new solutions to deploy fixed-winged air assets on Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) Anadolu....

...A few weeks ago, Turkey’s Head of Defence Industry Presidency, Prof. Ismail Demir, declared that LHD Anadolu is planned to be transformed into a drone carrier which would carry a new attack drone Bayraktar TB-3, derived from the combat-proven TB-2. While the people have been discussing the pros and cons of a “drone-carrier” concept, Mr. Demir announced a new plan of deploying an indigenous aircraft named “Hürjet” on LHD Anadolu last week....

...After this surprising announcement, the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) Aircraft Programs Manager stated that TAI has been in talks with the Turkish Navy about operating Hürjet on LHD Anadolu, and they plan to make a protocol with the Turkish Navy to keep cooperation on this issues. He also emphasized that the Hürjet can land and take off from a carrier and meet the operational needs of the Turkish Navy. “Several systems would be integrated into the aircraft to make it adaptable with naval assets.” [you betcha sweet bippy] the aircraft program manager added.

Although the Hürjet is planned to be deployed on the LHD, there are some technical difficulties in realizing this project. According to the experts, the Hürjet’s body parts should be strengthened before operating on a ship. Comparing to an aircraft carrier, Anadolu’s flight deck is shorter because it was designed for STOVL (short take-off and vertical landing) aircraft. For this reason, Hürjet may need a catapult system that will provide initial speed to take off. Because of the length of the flight deck, a hook system should be fitted to Anadolu to catch the aircraft while landing. Even if the hook system is fitted to the ship, it is unclear how the aircraft would stop if the hook cannot catch because the length of the flight deck wouldn’t provide enough room for Hürjet to take off again.

Hürjet was initially designed as a jet trainer aircraft, but it could assume combatant roles after fitting with missiles and other munitions. Although it cannot cope with a modern fighter aircraft, it can be used effectively in air-to-surface missions. It has a payload of around 3 tons which provides it to carry and launch indigenous SOM-J air-to-surface missiles and guided-munitions to neutralize adversary surface assets with limited air defense capability. It can also provide ISR assistance to the task group.

Prof. Demir declared at the same interview that they are planning to commission Anadolu in 2022. If the necessary modifications [b]would[/b] be fitted, it is possible that the commissioning of LHD Anadolu would be delayed.

About Hürjet Advanced Jet Trainer & Light Attack Aircraft..."



Source: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... d-anadolu/
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 06:07

LOL :lmao:
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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 11:06

What could go wrong....a small ship, stability issues and an inability to get over 20 knots...

It's HMS Hermes from 1921...
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