F-35B crashes after mid-air collision with tanker

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outlaw162

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Unread post22 Jun 2022, 18:46

Do the J Herk tankers fly the AAR race track patterns in some sort of GPS track mode on the autopilot or are they hand flown or is it optional? Autopilot roll rates are generally constant but initiation can be somewhat abrupt.....and

Since this was a WTI tactical mission, was the AAR conducted comm silent?

VMC or in WX, we never required a 'heads up' for AAR racetrack turns either in contact or observation position on either KC-135 or KC-10 or (gasp) KC-97....but many times the tanker pilot would provide a courtesy call for upcoming turns....unless practicing comm silent.
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blindpilot

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Unread post23 Jun 2022, 18:14

outlaw162 wrote:Do the J Herk tankers fly the AAR race track patterns in some sort of GPS track mode on the autopilot or are they hand flown or is it optional? Autopilot roll rates are generally constant but initiation can be somewhat abrupt.....and

Since this was a WTI tactical mission, was the AAR conducted comm silent?

VMC or in WX, we never required a 'heads up' for AAR racetrack turns either in contact or observation position on either KC-135 or KC-10 or (gasp) KC-97....but many times the tanker pilot would provide a courtesy call for upcoming turns....unless practicing comm silent.


Who knows these days with Tesla FSD and all, but I don't ever remember flying autopilot during a refueling. Like you may experience in an airliner sitting in the back seats, it wags the tail way up and way down very fast just to handle a small gust.

FWIW,
BP

PS Caution: BP is so old he doesn't remember what he did remember
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outlaw162

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Unread post24 Jun 2022, 15:59

All the tankers I ever saw were flown very smoothly. :D (Motivation to do so was obvious.)

Not so, however, with a few of the receivers I've worked with, generally students, but not always. Both probe and drogue and boom types.

On the way to Spain, with the night lights of St. Louis in the background, I watched an F-4 guy (the aimer) grossly overshoot the boom and end up directly underneath the belly of the KC-135 (the aimee). :shock: He was able to extricate himself this time, but on the way home a few weeks later over the Med in daylight, he had more handling problems trying take fuel from a KC-10, and had to divert into Rota. (And this was boom/recep, the easy method.) I 'spect it was a depth perception/vision problem. He retired shortly after that deployment. Fortunately the WSO in his backseat was fearless, and they eventually made it home.

I'm just curious, when you tanker drivers make a turn, do you look out the window first to see all's well with the receivers, not that it should be necessary, but survival-wise I never turned into any wingman without looking in that direction momentarily, at a minimum peripherally.

I wonder what the significance of the 1.2 second comment was....the amount of time from when the right seater realized they were going to be hit until the impact? Scary....although I would have had trouble telling whether it was 1 second or 2 seconds let alone the .2 interval.
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Unread post24 Jun 2022, 16:29

:devil: LUCKY YOU"RE WITH AIMEE :doh: "...“It was a really violent collision,” recalled Wolff, adding that momentary chaos all happening within “1.2 seconds or something. Not enough time to really react and do anything.”..." ['CHAOS happened in that timeframe and then the crew started to sort things out' is how I read that sentence.] ..."The collision sent headsets flying off the pilots’ heads and iPads off their mounts. “Anything that was loose in the cockpit went flying,” Wolff said earlier this month during a phone interview with USNI News. “It was pretty violent… I got my headset back on, grabbed the yoke and I got the plane back under control.”..."
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blindpilot

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Unread post25 Jun 2022, 01:08

outlaw162 wrote:All the tankers I ever saw were flown very smoothly. :D (Motivation to do so was obvious.)
...

I'm just curious, when you tanker drivers make a turn, do you ....


1. The main task is to be smooth. If you get a "breakaway .. break away .. break away," you still try to be smooth. Mostly throttle up to pull away forward and up, but jet engines take time (1-2+ seconds?) to spool up. But still, considering that even a little "throttle jockying" is very disruptive to the fighter on the boom, slamming forward full throttle usually gets you away quickly. Not sure about C-130's but would think that with props they should be able to bugout pretty fast?

2. Any time I was in the vicinity of any other aircraft, you always cleared everywhere for any maneuver.

3. The Boomer is basically in charge of the encounter/connection. He is the one who calls "break away." The tanker pilot just flies the aircraft steady and smooth. If done well you should be able to pull the fighter through a barrel roll and he would never notice, eyes glued to the tanker. (Yes a Boeing 707 has done a "1G" barrel roll before)

FWIW
BP
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Unread post25 Jun 2022, 03:26

Not to take anything away from Kiwi RED aerobatic team they sure dun good, however at end of A-4K Kahu service at NAS Nowra (RNZAF training squadron providing sorties for RAN) a Barrel Roll pair ARF tanker pilot died doing this at low level. 19 page PDF attached tells sad story, perhaps forgot NAS Nowra 400 feet above sea level? [circuit height 1360 feet ASL]

A-4K Kiwi Red Plugged In Barrel Roll Formation 'Swan' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AubU5FeUIs

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