VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2020, 01:57
by spazsinbad
VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October
27 Aug 2020 ALERT 5

"At a meeting between Japan’s Ministry of Defense and Iwakuni City, defense officials explained that the U.S. Marine Corps F/A-18s based at MCAS Iwakuni will be replaced by the F-35B starting from October.

According to the Marine Corps’ 2019 Aviation Plan, the unit is supposed to transition to the F-35B from FY21 in the first quarter and reach full operational capability in the last quarter of the year."

Graphic: http://alert5.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... an-pdf.png

Source:

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2020, 05:49
by gc
This is a significant acceleration of the VMFA-242 transition. They were initially slated to be amongst the last few USMC Squadrons to do so in 2030.

https://www.candp.marines.mil/Programs/ ... tion-Plan/

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2020, 06:52
by spazsinbad
USMC Aviation plan dated 25 Apr 2018 has been superceded: https://www.candp.marines.mil/portals/2 ... 085329-713

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2020, 13:15
by gc
spazsinbad wrote:USMC Aviation plan dated 25 Apr 2018 has been superceded: https://www.candp.marines.mil/portals/2 ... 085329-713


Thats exactly what i meant by acceleration of fielding of the F-35B for -242.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2020, 13:54
by jessmo112
The pacific is heating up.
How many total F-35 combat ready squadrens do we have now?

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 29 Aug 2020, 10:00
by aussiebloke
The U.S. Marine Corps expects in October to begin converting a second Japan-based squadron to new F-35B Lightning II stealth fighters.

That’s good news and bad. Good because the two-seat F/A-18D Hornets that Marine All-Weather Fighter-Attack Squadron 242 currently flies are old, tired and lacking in radar-evading qualities.

Bad because F/A-18s are the Marines’ main aerial ship-killers. And the F-35Bs can’t yet match that capability. This in a region teeming with Chinese warships.

More at:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... -fighters/

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 04:31
by element1loop
aussiebloke wrote:
... Bad because F/A-18s are the Marines’ main aerial ship-killers. And the F-35Bs can’t yet match that capability. This in a region teeming with Chinese warships.

More at:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... -fighters/


Article linked wrote:... It’s not that the F-35B can’t sink ships with its laser- and GPS-guided bombs. But even the Joint Stand-Off Weapon glide-bomb lacks range compared to the sea-skimming Harpoon with its 150-mile reach. And the guidance kits on land-attack weapons usually are less than ideal for targeting ships at sea. What that means is that, for a few years at least, the Marines in Japan are going to lose much of their aerial anti-ship capability.


This paragraph is way off. F-35B has more range, it's VLO can defeat sensors and ESM can hold its radius from them, and can break weapon kill-chains easily, plus there's no indication that a dedicated USN JSOW ship-killing moving target variant will miss ships.

Silly slop.

David Axe [/wtf?]

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 04:54
by marauder2048
The F-35B is getting JSOW-ER externally.

AFAIK, the classic Hornets did not get Harpoon II+ which is the only one of practical use in those waters.

And where does Axe come up with a 150 nautical mile range for Harpoon?

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 06:36
by element1loop
marauder2048 wrote:And where does Axe come up with a 150 nautical mile range for Harpoon?


As I remember RAN's "II" version was described as a 160 km range weapon. 150 nm = 278 km

JSOW-ER is 300 nm range = 555 km (in USN from late 2023)

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 09:46
by aussiebloke
marauder2048 wrote:
And where does Axe come up with a 150 nautical mile range for Harpoon?


F-16 net?
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article12.html

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 12:34
by squirrelshoes
There's a reason B-1B was moved to the front of the line for LRASM, to close this antiship capability gap in the short-term.

This lack of F-35B antiship capability is exactly that a short term problem that will be shared with UK until the weapons qualifications queue plays their song. JSOW, Spear, maybe even LRASM or JSM someday. If lots of Chinese ships needed to be targeted before then it would likely be B-1s doing the hauling while F-35s did the targeting, a couple of B-1s could bring 48 LRASMs to the fight which is a lot more antiship capability than an entire squadron of F-18Ds slinging harpoons.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 17:56
by marauder2048
aussiebloke wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:
And where does Axe come up with a 150 nautical mile range for Harpoon?


F-16 net?
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article12.html


That's SLAM-ER. The Marines have Harpoon 1C. The latter has much shorter range.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2020, 18:04
by marauder2048
squirrelshoes wrote:There's a reason B-1B was moved to the front of the line for LRASM, to close this antiship capability gap in the short-term.

This lack of F-35B antiship capability is exactly that a short term problem that will be shared with UK until the weapons qualifications queue plays their song. JSOW, Spear, maybe even LRASM or JSM someday. If lots of Chinese ships needed to be targeted before then it would likely be B-1s doing the hauling while F-35s did the targeting, a couple of B-1s could bring 48 LRASMs to the fight which is a lot more antiship capability than an entire squadron of F-18Ds slinging harpoons.


The loss of Harpoon 1C capability is no real loss in crowded asian shipping waters unless
the plan is that the Marines engage Chinese surface combatants after they've broken through
to the open ocean.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2020, 01:39
by element1loop
marauder2048 wrote:
squirrelshoes wrote:There's a reason B-1B was moved to the front of the line for LRASM, to close this antiship capability gap in the short-term.


The loss of Harpoon 1C capability is no real loss in crowded asian shipping waters unless
the plan is that the Marines engage Chinese surface combatants after they've broken through
to the open ocean.


One hit with a modern anti-ship missile in the right place is likely to render most ships unable to fight, or even communicate and defend itself properly. We don't even need more missiles to sink those that are hit properly the first time. Why LRASM's passive imaging to target specific locations on each targeted ship class makes so much more sense.

A couple of JDAM-ER with laser guidance and RF kit options and 70 km standoff would be almost perfect for burning and sinking them from there. Just 1 x SH loaded with 2 x 2,000lb JDAM-ERs per ship, and they're probably done (for $100K tops). We could manufacture those kits like hot cakes.

It would be a terrible waste of missiles to keep hitting them with Harpoon, JSOW-ER, Tomahawk or LRASM until they sank or were dead in the water. No need. The need is to save those remainder missiles for DPRK or Iran, or anyone else who wants to be stupid, during the following 5 year period after defeating PLAN's surface fleet. We could win the war, but end up depleted.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2020, 08:56
by marauder2048
element1loop wrote:One hit with a modern anti-ship missile in the right place is likely to render most ships unable to fight, or even communicate and defend itself properly. We don't even need more missiles to sink those that are hit properly the first time. Why LRASM's passive imaging to target specific locations on each targeted ship class makes so much more sense.

A couple of JDAM-ER with laser guidance and RF kit options and 70 km standoff would be almost perfect for burning and sinking them from there. Just 1 x SH loaded with 2 x 2,000lb JDAM-ERs per ship, and they're probably done (for $100K tops). We could manufacture those kits like hot cakes.


This was basically the orthodox USAF view in the late Cold War: an ASCM impact would typically result in a
mission kill on an enemy ship that would permit cheaper stand-in weapons to be employed for the coup de grace.

The issue with the non-datalinked Harpoon 1C is getting it to hit the right ship in the first place since
a deliberate or unintentional enemy countermeasure would be to mix the its surface combatant
within civilian traffic.

That the Marines didn't upgrade Harpoon IC to II+ or SLAM-ER* is, in my view, pretty telling.

* You do see the occasional photo of USCM F/A-18s with it.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 24 Oct 2020, 06:33
by spazsinbad
Second F-35B Squadron Officially Established In Indo-Pacific Region With The Redesignation Of VMFA-242
23 Oct 2020 1st Marine Aircraft Wing

"IWAKUNI, Japan -- On October 16, Marine Aircraft Group 12 re-designated Marine All Weather Fighter Attack Squadron 242 to Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 242 as part of the Marine Corps’ ongoing transition process from legacy F/A-18 Hornet aircraft to the newer 5th generation F-35B Lightning II. This transition is in accordance with mutual agreements between the U.S. and the Government of Japan, and occurred on schedule per the annual Marine Corps aviation plan.

The F-35 represents the future of Marine Corps tactical aviation and will eventually replace the AV-8B Harrier, the F/A-18 Hornet, and the EA-6B Prowler in all units across the Marine Corps. MAG-12 received the first forward-stationed F-35B squadron in January, 2017 when VMFA-121 was relocated to Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan. With the addition of VMFA-242, MAG-12 is now the only overseas unit with two permanently stationed F-35B squadrons...."

Source: https://www.marines.mil/News/News-Displ ... th-the-re/

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 26 Oct 2020, 02:05
by Corsair1963
Just another headache for the Chinese Military!

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 02:13
by jessmo112
message-editor_1604441990761-cvw.jpg
I have a question for yoy guys.
I recently saw this chart for future squadrens
Thats seems very low for what America needs versus a peer.
Of the 16 F-35C embarked will that include marine numbers or is that discounting the marines.
Are we talking 26 F-35s when you add 10 marines strike jets?

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 03:09
by spazsinbad
Would and will be always nice to have a reference for information including an URL for the CONTEXT IN IT - thanks. :bang:

With STINGRAY tankers onboard all the Super Hornets are strike aircraft, why do there need to be more F-35Cs? The graphic from whatever source is what it is. There are other fast jets onboard then helos and V-22s. Do we know the composition of USMC F-35C squadrons? NOT that I know and why would they not match the USN F-35C squadron numbers to fit into the equation (especially if they are the only F-35C squadron onboard at the time). I'm always amazed by the lack of acceptance of OFFICIAL (if that is what this graphic is & not some 'pie in the sky maybe' idea) FUTURE whatevers.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 03:34
by Corsair1963
jessmo112 wrote:
message-editor_1604441990761-cvw.jpg
I have a question for yoy guys.
I recently saw this chart for future squadrens
Thats seems very low for what America needs versus a peer.
Of the 16 F-35C embarked will that include marine numbers or is that discounting the marines.
Are we talking 26 F-35s when you add 10 marines strike jets?



I would assume USMC F-35C Units would also have 16 aircraft. Yet, I am just speculating....

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 03:41
by jessmo112
spazsinbad wrote:Would and will be always nice to have a reference for information including an URL for the CONTEXT IN IT - thanks. :bang:

With STINGRAY tankers onboard all the Super Hornets are strike aircraft, why do there need to be more F-35Cs? The graphic from whatever source is what it is. There are other fast jets onboard then helos and V-22s. Do we know the composition of USMC F-35C squadrons? NOT that I know and why would they not match the USN F-35C squadron numbers to fit into the equation (especially if they are the only F-35C squadron onboard at the time). I'm always amazed by the lack of acceptance of OFFICIAL (if that is what this graphic is & not some 'pie in the sky maybe' idea) FUTURE whatevers.


Here is the article in question.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... -squadrons.

16 seems like its to low. Im assuming (or maybe im just the a** in assume) that by 2030 the navy will face red air 5th generation fighters. Just barely squadrens dont be enough jets to go down town and hit targets AND hunt down stealthy attack planes.
Spaz I await your commentary on this issue with baited breath.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 04:16
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:Would and will be always nice to have a reference for information including an URL for the CONTEXT IN IT - thanks. :bang:

With STINGRAY tankers onboard all the Super Hornets are strike aircraft, why do there need to be more F-35Cs? The graphic from whatever source is what it is. There are other fast jets onboard then helos and V-22s. Do we know the composition of USMC F-35C squadrons? NOT that I know and why would they not match the USN F-35C squadron numbers to fit into the equation (especially if they are the only F-35C squadron onboard at the time). I'm always amazed by the lack of acceptance of OFFICIAL (if that is what this graphic is & not some 'pie in the sky maybe' idea) FUTURE whatevers.



The USN/USMC really wanted enough F-35C's to field two F-35C Squadrons per CVW. (10 aircraft each) Yet, the budget just wasn't there...

So, my "guess" is the number did support "16" aircraft. So, they just adjusted the new Air Wing to reflect that.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 05:58
by spazsinbad
'jessmo112' I'll presume you meant this: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/with--bated--breath Otherwise I ain't takin' dat bait. Commenting on DRIVE by B/S is not worth my time nor yours. Who knows what 2030 will bring let alone tomorra.

Ten years ago in 2010 approx. the F-35C could not catch a break let alone a wire. So you want to know what is happening in 2030? I'll let you know then. AFAIK the USMC have not decided upon make up of their F-35 squadrons - just talked about a change without a final word. So I'll wait for that also. As suggested perhaps like other things they'll match USN F-35Cs.

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 07:30
by Corsair1963
Honestly, the USN maybe just playing a little politics. Hoping to get additional funding from the Congress. So, they could field two F-35C's Squadrons with 10 aircraft each vs one with 16 aircraft.


Wouldn't surprise me one bit..... :wink:

Re: VMFA(AW)-242 to swap F/A-18D for F-35B from October

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2020, 23:46
by XanderCrews
jessmo112 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Would and will be always nice to have a reference for information including an URL for the CONTEXT IN IT - thanks. :bang:

With STINGRAY tankers onboard all the Super Hornets are strike aircraft, why do there need to be more F-35Cs? The graphic from whatever source is what it is. There are other fast jets onboard then helos and V-22s. Do we know the composition of USMC F-35C squadrons? NOT that I know and why would they not match the USN F-35C squadron numbers to fit into the equation (especially if they are the only F-35C squadron onboard at the time). I'm always amazed by the lack of acceptance of OFFICIAL (if that is what this graphic is & not some 'pie in the sky maybe' idea) FUTURE whatevers.


Here is the article in question.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... -squadrons.

16 seems like its to low. Im assuming (or maybe im just the a** in assume) that by 2030 the navy will face red air 5th generation fighters. Just barely squadrens dont be enough jets to go down town and hit targets AND hunt down stealthy attack planes.
Spaz I await your commentary on this issue with baited breath.


Super hornets first deployed on CVNs in small numbers and their critical contribution was mostly as tankers.

Image

you have to start somewhere.]

took decades for SH to become the "main battery"