Italian Air Force and Navy fighting over F-35B?

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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Nov 2021, 02:05

sunstersun wrote:I really think this split idea makes no sense.

Just give the Navy like 20 and procure 80 A versions instead.



You mean give the Italian Navy 30 F-35B's.....with the remaining F-35A's going to the Air Force! :wink:

Also, when the Navy F-35B's are not deployed at sea. Nothing says that can't operate within a land-based role. Which, is hardly uncommon in the first place........
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Unread post23 Nov 2021, 10:43

Italian F-35Bs cross-deck ops on HMS Queen Elizabeth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIQSWK-AMwU

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Unread post22 Sep 2022, 00:03

Joint but apart: Italian Navy and Air Force settle on F-35B plan
22 Sep 2022 Tom Kington

"ROME — The Italian Air Force and Navy have finally figured out how to manage their small fleets of F-35Bs, and it goes something like “Joint training and operations, but separate bases.” With both services due to receive just 15 F-35B’s each, the need for pooled management has been obvious to officials, despite rivalries [ https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... to-a-head/ ] between the military branches.

Now a solution has been found which ensures synergies, even if it falls short of the joint squadron concept adopted in the U.K. for Royal Air Force and Royal Navy F-35Bs. It envisages both services keeping separate land bases for their jets – the Navy at Grottaglie in southern Italy and the Air Force at Amendola, also in southern Italy.

But Air Force chief Gen. Luca Goretti told Defense News the jointness would kick in during training and operations.

“When an operation is naval, we can offer a ‘package’ – pilots, aircraft and maintenance staff – to go on the (Italian navy carrier) Cavour under Navy command,” he said. “If the operation is an Air Force operation, with possible involvement of Navy aircraft, the Navy will offer the same ‘package’ to go under air force command,” he added.

The Air Force envisages using F-35Bs for so-called expeditionary missions where aircraft need to be positioned at a forward base with a short runway.... [some usage examples next]

...Goretti said he was comfortable with both services keeping separate land bases for their jets, despite some observers voicing concerns over cost duplications. “There will not be one land base for both air force and navy aircraft,” he said.

“Our base is Amendola, while the Navy understandably wants to have its simulators close to the Taranto base of the Cavour, meaning Grottaglie. The Navy aircraft will be based on the Cavour. For minimal maintenance they could do it at Grottaglie, then go to Cameri,” he said, referring to Italy’s F-35 assembly and maintenance line in northern Italy.

Security considerations also played a role in keeping two bases, he added. “If you look at Ukraine, we have gone back in time to the Cold War, when the dispersion of bases saved lives,” he said. Splitting the aircraft would keep them safer, he claimed. “Having one base to save on resources could have happened before Ukraine, but the world has changed,” he said."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -35b-plan/
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Unread post01 Dec 2022, 12:23

JOINING FORCES [2 page PDF of article attached]
Dec 2022 Remo Guidi

"Remo Guidi examines the challenge that the Italian Air Force and the Italian Navy are facing by integrating the F-35B....

...The ItAF Chief of Staff General Luca Goretti was extremely clear in specifying to CAJ [Combat Aircraft Journal] that: "One of the first issues that has been assessed is the operations command and control, and we have established that when there are operations [that are] mainly marine activity, the management is by the Navy; when there are operations mainly [in the] air, activity management is managed by the Air Force.

"The pilot does not care who gives him the order; the significant matter is that it is clear and unambiguous. We first made it clear who does what in case of operations and I must say that it is working well. Of course, there was some resistance for the change, but this is normal in a complex organization."

"Grottaglie airport (GRUPAER headquarters) is a Navy site, and will remain as it is: ...clarified Gen Gorettin to CAJ about the possible transfer of the Navy's F-35Bs from Grottaglie to Amendola, where the Air Force operates its F-35Bs. "And if we look a little further and at what is happening in Ukraine, in a vertical spread concept, perhaps it is necessary to find other locations and Alghero could be one of these."

At the same time, the Navy's point of view was underlined to CAJ by Admiral Aurello De Carolis, Fleet Chief Commander, who said: "The co-operation between the Air Force and the Navy has its origins in a far away past and now this co-operation is maintained thanks to a common asset, the F-35B, which has extraordinary capabilities....

...Having a short take-off and vertical landing aircraft available allows the Air Force enormous flexibility of use..."

Source: COMBAT AIRCRAFT JOURNAL Volume 24 No 01 JANUARY 2023
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Joining Italian F-35Bs Combat Aircraft Journal Jan 2023 pp2.pdf
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