Greece, Romania, and Poland.

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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Feb 2022, 09:48

chucky2 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:
Likely Base For Second Polish F-35 Squadron Identified
30 Sep 2021 Bartosz Głowacki

snip

The first batch of eight Polish F-35s will be delivered in 2024-2025, and will be based in Luke AFB, Arizona, in order to train 24 pilots and 90 maintainers, some of whom will go on to be Poland’s home-based instructors. Another batch of aircraft would be delivered to Poland in 2026-2027, with Initial Operational Capability for the squadron at Łask in 2026, and a fully stood up squadron there by 2030.

Gen. Tod D. Wolters, Commander, U.S. European Command and NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe, has stated that “by approximately 2030,” NATO will have 450 F-35s, based at twelve locations. The bases as planned:
◾United Kingdom (RAF Marham and RAF Lakenheath starting in 2021)
◾Netherlands (Volkel, in 2022 and Leeuwarden TBD)
◾Denmark (Skrydstrup, in 2023)
◾Italy (Amendola and Ghedi in 2022)
◾Norway (Ørland and Evenes in 2022)
◾Belgium (Florennes in 2025 and Kleine-Brogel in 2027)
◾Poland (Łask in 2026, Świdwin TBD)"

Source: https://breakingdefense.com/2021/09/lik ... dentified/


I cannot imagine what it is like as a Russian Mil planner knowing there are hundreds of 5th gen stealth fighter/bombers within striking distance of you and, at least at present, there is not a darn thing you can do about them - short of nukes or attacking their airbases effectively somehow - laying waste to whatever they want in your country with the only limit being stores and fuel. 3 stream engines should only make that a worse problem. F-35 becoming B61-12 certified makes again and even worse problem. That doesn't count NGAD or B-21, themselves large problems. No wonder Putin wants Ukraine...


That plus the fact that Biden is preceived as being weak. So, Putin is making his move now. While he still has something to bargin with..........
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chucky2

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Unread post09 Feb 2022, 04:18

steve2267 wrote:Not that I disagree with you, but...

I will gently admonish you to leave politics out and try to keep comments to the F-35 itself. Forum history has demonstrated that these sorts of conversations rapidly spiral down the drain hole.


Fair enough Steve, I'll take it down if anyone has a problem with it since this is not a politics forum...
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mixelflick

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Unread post09 Feb 2022, 18:59

Putin hold most of the cards right now, and has played a good hand. The presence of F-22 and 35's in the area absolutely is of concern though. The big question: Does our leadership have the guts to use them?

Based on what we've seen thus far, nope. The Chinese must be loving this. North Korea and Iran too...

FJB :mrgreen:
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chucky2

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Unread post10 Feb 2022, 00:03

mixelflick wrote:Putin hold most of the cards right now, and has played a good hand. The presence of F-22 and 35's in the area absolutely is of concern though. The big question: Does our leadership have the guts to use them?

Based on what we've seen thus far, nope. The Chinese must be loving this. North Korea and Iran too...

FJB :mrgreen:


Yeah it's interesting politically to say the least. The entire world saw us completely abandon first the Afghan SF by not supporting their air support which also equaled their supply chain, and then just leaving not only decades long loyal Afghans and their families but our own people to the Taliban. There should be no non-1st world nation that we already haven't been long allied with that should ever trust us again. Ever. If they do, they're F'ing idiots.

Taiwan is gone, Ukraine may be. NK, short of full invasion, can launch missiles with impunity as long as they don't actually hit anything. Iran can feel free to do whatever it wants (they're too big anyways to truly stop them short of them initiating an open war).

It's going to be an interesting next couple of decades...
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Corsair1963

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Unread post10 Feb 2022, 00:36

mixelflick wrote:Putin hold most of the cards right now, and has played a good hand. The presence of F-22 and 35's in the area absolutely is of concern though. The big question: Does our leadership have the guts to use them?

Based on what we've seen thus far, nope. The Chinese must be loving this. North Korea and Iran too...


Putin hardly holds most of the cards. If he invades Ukraine it will be very costly in lives and his limited military resources. Plus, he can't just pull out either. Meaning he would have to maintain a large military presence in the country for the foreseeable future!

Then to all that he will face "massive sanctions" and his precious pipeline to Germany will be history! This while the West didn't really want Ukraine as a NATO Member anyways....

So, sounds like a Nightmare for Putin to me...... :shock:

As for the F-35's the US should have move at least a few to Eastern Europe. To give Putin even more pause....

Finally, while Biden appears fairly weak. The message from the US and NATO appears strong and firm.
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doge

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Unread post17 Feb 2022, 19:25

Ambition of the Romanians. 8)
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politi ... fter-2030/
Romania still committed to get F-35s, but after 2030
By Bogdan Neagu | EURACTIV.ro February 3, 2022
After buying second-hand fighter jets from Portugal and Norway, Romania will continue its plans to upgrade its air force, but new generation fighters will only enter service after 2030.
The planes that recently became operational, mainly F-16 fighter jets, will allow the Romanian army more efficient mission completion, said president Klaus Iohannis after a visit to an air force base in Campia Turzii, central Romania.
“The modernisation of the Air Forces will not stop here; we plan to also buy new-generation jets, F-35,” Iohannis said.
Romania has an F-16 squadron, formed after buying 17 used planes from Portugal, and it announced plans to form two more squadrons, with 32 aircraft bought from Norway. The F-16s were designed to replace the ageing MIG-21 Lancers in Romania’s air force, and they are estimated to last at least seven to 10 years, so a major upgrade will only come after 2030.
President Klaus Iohannis said Romania would continue to allot at least 2% of GDP for defence spending, continuing to upgrade its military capabilities.

Welcoming US troops
During his visit, Iohannis also welcomed the US military’s announcement that it would move 1,000 soldiers from its Stryker squadron to Romania from Germany as part of increasing its presence in Europe.
The United States will move approximately 3,000 service members to Romania, Poland and Germany in response to Russia’s continuing build-up of forces on its western border with Ukraine and in Belarus, Pentagon Press Secretary John F. Kirby said Wednesday.
The US army already has around 900 troops stationed in Romania, and it is investing $150 million to upgrade the airbase in Campia Turzii which was visited by the Romanian president.
Kirby said a 1,000-member Army Stryker squadron would deploy to Romania from Germany. The deployment is at the express invitation of the Romanian government, and it will begin in a couple of days, he added.

https://www.romaniajournal.ro/politics/ ... -aircraft/
Iohannis: Romania Considers To Buy F-35 “State-Of-The-Art” Aircraft
By Romania Journal Last updated Feb 2, 2022
Romanian President Klaus Iohannis said on Wednesday, at the air base in Câmpia Turzii, that, in the process of modernizing the Air Force, Romania is considering the purchase of F-35 “state-of-the-art” aircraft.
“As far as we are concerned, Romania is determined to further develop and modernize its military capabilities, in accordance with the commitments made within the North Atlantic Alliance. At the same time, we will continue to pay more attention to increasing the operational capacity of all military structures, both through national efforts and in a multinational context. The continuation of Romania’s strategic efforts to guarantee the territorial integrity and security of its citizens, as well as to provide support to allied and partner states, in accordance with its international commitments, is a priority of our country’s foreign and security policy. At the same time, increasing resilience, both at the level of military structures and at the level of public institutions and society as a whole, is a main direction of action subsumed by the implementation of the National Strategy for National Defense (…)
The new types of aircraft fitted to the Army, especially F-16 aircraft, allow all specific missions to be carried out with high efficiency. The process of modernizing the Air Force will not stop here, however, we intend to purchase state-of-the-art aircraft, F-35,” said President Klaus Iohannis.
The Romanian head of state argued that the risks to Romania’s security have increased and “we must be very well prepared to counter the aggressive actions”.
“We are going through an extremely tense period, when risks to the security of the region, including Romania, have increased.(…) There are obvious tendencies to return to the policy of force and to challenge the current liberal international order, as well as the European security architecture, built after the Cold War,” said Iohannis.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post18 May 2022, 08:35

Greece seeks to join F-35 program as it lobbies against Turkey F-16 sale
18 May 2022 Bryant Harris

"WASHINGTON — Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis visited the White House and Congress this week to make his country’s case for acquiring the F-35 stealth fighter jet while lobbying against Turkey’s attempts to upgrade its aging fleet of F-16s and acquire additional aircraft.

Not to be outdone, Turkish officials will visit Washington later this week to make their case for Congress to consent to an approximately $400 million deal to upgrade their F-16 jets with new missiles, radar and electronics — a prospect made more complicated by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s recent vows to block Sweden and Finland from joining NATO.

On Monday, Mitsotakis announced after a meeting with President Joe Biden that Greece will move forward with its bid to acquire the F-35 after 2028. “We will launch the process for the acquisition of a squadron of F-35 aircraft, and we do hope to be able to add this fantastic plane to the Greek Air Force before the end of this decade,” Mitsotakis said at the White House. He also noted Lockheed Martin — which produces F-35s and F-16s — “officially expressed its interest in investing in Hellenic aerospace” last week, right before his visit to Washington.

Media outlets in Greece cited Greek government officials as noting Lockheed Martin has invited Athens to join the F-35 co-production program. “Building on our partnership of more than 75 years, we are honored the Greek government is interested in the F-35, and we will provide any support the U.S. government requires in discussions about an acquisition,” Lockheed Martin told Defense News in a statement...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... f-16-sale/
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doge

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Unread post30 May 2022, 05:53

F-35 review by Greece's Vice Admiral, and Advisor to the Government. 8)
https://newsbulletin247.com/opinion/98151.html
F-35 in the Greek arsenal: What does their market mean – How will the balance change in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean
By Stephen May 18, 2022
A strategic and technological leap is the Addition of the state-of-the-art F-35 to the Greek arsenal, the 5th generation fighter which will upset the balances in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean.
The F-35 is a first strike aircraft. It is not detected by enemy radars thanks to its low trace and electronic warfare systems, while it has precision weapons that can neutralize any threat.

“Invades enemy territory without being noticed, shoots down targets and destroys enemy air defenses as well as the enemy air force even on the ground”reports ο Vice Admiral e.a., Konstantinos Iatridis,
The F-35 collects and manages information from sensors and radar, satellites, electronic warfare systems, open source, UAVs and Drones creating a very detailed picture of the battlefield, which it shares with all means of the Armed Forces.

“The F-35 is coming to solve a huge problem. Comes to manage air, sea and land weapon systems. He comes to manage all the weapons through the different sensors and the tools he has on him to analyze and come up with the best choice “states the Adviser to the Government on issues of remote areas and Mount Athos, Alkiviadis Stefanis.
Only “close” allies of the United States, from Britain and Israel to Australia and Japan, belong to the “closed” F-35, while in the past Turkey was due to the possession of Russian missiles.

Its membership in the Air Force will increase the geostrategic footprint of Greece, giving opportunities for cooperation with Israel’s F-35s, while it will be the only user in the southeastern wing of NATO.
The presence of the F-35 in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean creates new data. It is a flying headquarters that works with both the Rafale and the F-16 Viper, as well as the air defense and the Navy, creating a unified weapons system.

“It analyzes the information and transfers it to the other aircraft, even with the priority of threat for the aircraft that follow the F-35”, underlines Konstantinos Iatridis.
“It has the greatest survival of any aircraft right now. That is, the pilot and the aircraft can survive against multiple threats, using automatic means, semi-automatic and manual. “, notes Alkiviadis Stefanis. Over the next decade, the Air Force will have 155 F-16s, of which 83 VIPER, 24 Mirage 2000-5 and 24 Rafale, while the 36 F-4 Phantoms are expected to be replaced by F-35s, offering impressive deterrence capabilities in Hellenic Armed Forces.
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optimist

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 15:49

Aussie fanboy
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jessmo112

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 22:12

This is not just a sale to Greece but a geo-strategic check on Turkisk ambitious. I feel like the Turks will be preoccupied with Greece now rather than meddling in Azerbaijan, Syrian Libya, ect ect.
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madrat

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Unread post02 Jul 2022, 06:45

I'm more worried about them meddling in the Ukraine.
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wrightwing

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Unread post03 Jul 2022, 01:51

optimist wrote:The Greeks are going to get 20 F-35
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/gr ... ce=twitter

20 and possibly 40.
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solarwarden

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Unread post05 Jul 2022, 16:56

Some Greek fella and his opinion. :roll:

Konstantinos Zikidis, a lecturer at the Greek Air Force Academy - Department of Electronics, Electricity, and Telecommunications, added VERY IMPORTANT findings that directly concern us to the article written about the Greek air force. The following is an English summary of Zikidis's writings.

It is well known that I watched the F-35 in particular with reservations. It is well known that there are about 750 registered issues (increasing instead of decreasing), very high procurement costs (not per unit, but entire package) and especially very high operating costs (company's report).

The intention to reduce the operating cost to less than $25,000 in 2025 seems cheesy as it is so far from reality, often disguised by the fact that this is the budget value for fiscal 2012 and not the present value.

When it comes to detecting stealth threats like the F-35, our findings tell us that the saying holds true: on a frequency basis, the lower the better. And our neighbor (Turkey) has several LM FPS-117 and Leonardo RAT-31D radars transmitting in the L band (relatively low). These can provide a detection distance of roughly 100 nm against the F-35. In addition, Turkey's flying radars operate in the same band.

By the end of the next decade, when we assume we will get the first F-35s, no one can prevent them from acquiring more L-band or even lower-frequency radars (UHF/VHF-band). The fact of the matter is that they may already own what they have developed/produced by that time.

In the Greek Air Force, I believe that increasing the Block 50 to 50M is in the right direction, as it optimizes the operational value of the F-16s in question, which is quite small (38) and has a fairly large balance.

The eventual upgrade of Block 50s to Vipers will offer greater flexibility and economies of scale in terms of operating costs. Therefore, under the current circumstances, the upgrade decided seems to be the optimal solution as the budget is constrained. However, the cost of the upgrade will be much higher. however, studies, prototyping, testing, etc. will require a lot of money, a lot of time and a lot of risk. Time is a critical parameter.

I believe this is one of the main reasons the US decided to upgrade the 608 F-16: in the long run, it will pay for itself due to lower radar support costs, while still having the capabilities of an AESA radar.


Found it in another forum but the link is not allowing me for some reason to post it here I'll try later.
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ricnunes

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Unread post06 Jul 2022, 14:03

solarwarden wrote:When it comes to detecting stealth threats like the F-35, our findings tell us that the saying holds true: on a frequency basis, the lower the better. And our neighbor (Turkey) has several LM FPS-117 and Leonardo RAT-31D radars transmitting in the L band (relatively low). These can provide a detection distance of roughly 100 nm against the F-35. In addition, Turkey's flying radars operate in the same band.


LoL, they can't even detect a F-35 at a distance of 100 km let alone 100 nm :doh:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post12 Jul 2022, 23:20

Could Greek F-35 buy cause a flare up in US-Turkish relations? 12 Jul 2022 VALERIE INSINNA & AARON MEHTA

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/07/cou ... relations/
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