India and the F-35?

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4793
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post23 Jul 2022, 16:45

mixelflick wrote:Here's the real bottom line why I think they're going Rafale: Spectra and Meteor (amidst other avionic goodies).


Well, first of all Rafale's Spectra isn't that superior to the Super Hornet's IDECM as some or even many may imagine. Even if Spectra is somehow "better" it would be only slightly so. Or more precisely, both Spectra and IDECM are in the same "league".
Regarding Meteor, the Super Hornet comes or can be equipped with the AIM-120D and there's even a new variant of this missile - the AIM-120D3 - being currently tested which has even better range than "baseline" AIM-120D which already has a very good or even excellent range.
Moreover, if the Indians really want the Meteor missile to be fitted on their new carrier-borne fighter aircraft and if they select the Super Hornet then I'm sure they would gladly pay for the integration of the Meteor on the Super Hornet and even more, I'm 99.9999% sure that the "Super Hornet + Meteor integration" would still be (much) cheaper than the "Rafale".

On top of this the Super Hornet (SH) also has some very important advantages over the Rafale. One of them was mentioned by milosh which is the SH's wingspan with the wings folded being smaller than the Rafale's wingspan and this is hugely important for a carrier aircraft since every inch of space in a carrier counts a lot!

Another very big/huge advantage of the SH would be Anti-Ship missions! The Super Hornet carries AGM-84 Harpoon missiles as its main anti-ship weapon while the Rafale carries the Exocet. The Harpoon seems to be a better missile having for example better range than the Exocet. And the Super Hornet will soon be equipped with the much better and superior LRASM missile. On top of this the SH carries four (4) of these missile (max) while the Rafale carries only three (3) of such missiles (max).

And I think that Anti-Ship missions may be a very important requirement for the Indian Navy and as such I think it was NO coincidence that during these latest sky-jump trials the Super Hornet carried AGM-84 Hapoon missiles attached to it.


mixelflick wrote:They've never bought an American fighter before, so its difficult for me to see them doing so.


Well, they never bough an American attack helicopter until very recently and now they have the AH-64 Apache.
They never bough an American Maritime Patrol aircraft until very recently and now they have the P-8 Poseidon (which replaced the Soviet/Russian Tu-142).
They never bough an American Strategic Military Transport aircraft until very recently and now they have the C-17.

So I think it's a matter of time that they will eventually get an American fighter aircraft as well.


mixelflick wrote:I guess we'll find out - some day, lol.


Yes, here we are in full agreement :wink:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post23 Jul 2022, 22:30

Super Hornet Completes Indian Carrier Trials
21 Jul 2022 David Donald

"The Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet has completed a series of demonstration and trial flights at Indian Naval Air Station (INAS) Hansa in Goa. The trials were undertaken by two F/A-18E single-seaters from the U.S. Navy and included numerous launches from, and recoveries to, the Indian Navy’s shore-based dummy deck facility, which features a ski-jump and represents the short take-off but arrested recovery configuration of India’s carriers.

Arrested recoveries were conducted from both roll-in and fly-in wire engagements. The aircraft were flown at various weights and in various operational configurations covering different air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons loadouts. The Indian campaign follows a series of eight ski-jump launches conducted in late 2020 at the U.S. Navy’s test facility at NAS Patuxent River in Maryland....

...Having been dissatisfied with the MiG-29K/KUB fighters that it had acquired from Russia to serve aboard the modified Soviet-era Kiev-class carrier INS Vikramaditya, the Indian Navy is seeking to buy 26 carrier-borne fighters to equip the new INS Vikrant, also known as Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 1...."

Photo: “One of the U.S. Navy F/A-18Es snags an arrester wire during trials on INAS Hansa’s dummy deck. Goa’s Dabolim airfield is the main fighter base for the Indian Navy, and also serves as the international airport. (Photo: Boeing)” https://www.ainonline.com/sites/ainonli ... hires.jpeg


Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ier-trials
Attachments
GOA HANSA Shornet TEST Arrest 2022.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 9113
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post23 Jul 2022, 23:52

Yeah, India is still considering the Super Hornet or Rafale M. While, PLAN (China) continues to develop and build the J-35..........


:doh:
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 00:01

IIRC there was concern about RAFALE M wingspan too large for the LIFTS? I'll maybe find that topic later. Meanwhile:
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... 5-fighter/

PHOTO: https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/up ... PLANAF.jpg
Attachments
J-35.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 9113
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 00:17

When is India going to wake up and smell the roses? :?
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 00:59

This article is a TOUGH READ due to 'Engrish NOTme even THOID langrwaage' however it has lots of UPlifting examples and details so for those into LIFTs go for it: https://min.news/en/military/194e0f95d8 ... 754a3.html I'm not going to check the details either because I'm not that interested - I'll wait for the outcome of the competition.

Another example of 'does my wing look to big for this lift'? Youse'll have to bear with me because I cannot easily copy/paste so a PDF is being made... A 2 page PDF of the article will be attached.
Super Hornets may pip Rafales in Indian Navy’s Carrier-based Fighter Aircraft Procurement – Indian Defence Research Wing
23 Jul 2022 ADMIN

"...The F/A-18 can fold its wings to fit into the elevators of INS Vikrant, while this is a complex task with the Rafale M because its wings cannot be folded. Also in favour of the Super Hornet is the availability of the twin-seater variant, F/A-18F, while the Rafales only come in single-seat configuration. Further, the F/A-18 can fold its wings to fit into the elevators of INS Vikrant, while this is a complex task with the Rafale M because its wings cannot be folded. While the Rafale M’s wingspan of 35 feet 9 inches is less than the Super Hornet’s 44 feet 8.5 inches, the latter’s wingspan can be reduced to 30.5 feet after folding its wings, making it 5 feet less than the Rafale M...."

Source: https://idrw.org/super-hornets-may-pip- ... ocurement/
Attachments
Super Hornets may pip Rafales in Indian Navy’s Carrier-based Fighter Aircraft Procurement pp2.pdf
(860.81 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
Last edited by spazsinbad on 24 Jul 2022, 02:12, edited 4 times in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 9113
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 01:07

spazsinbad wrote:One example of 'does my wing look to big for this lift'? https://idrw.org/super-hornets-may-pip- ... ocurement/ Youse'll have to bear with me because I cannot easily copy/paste so a PDF is being made... A 2 page PDF of the article will be attached.
"...The F/A-18 can fold its wings to fit into the elevators of INS Vikrant, while this is a complex task with the Rafale M because its wings cannot be folded. Also in favour of the Super Hornet is the availability of the twin-seater variant, F/A-18F, while the Rafales only come in single-seat configuration. Further, the F/A-18 can fold its wings to fit into the elevators of INS Vikrant, while this is a complex task with the Rafale M because its wings cannot be folded. While the Rafale M’s wingspan of 35 feet 9 inches is less than the Super Hornet’s 44 feet 8.5 inches, the latter’s wingspan can be reduced to 30.5 feet after folding its wings, making it 5 feet less than the Rafale M...."


The Super Hornet is also available in the EW Variant. (Growler) That has to be a big advantage! Especially, with no 5th Generation Naval Fighter on board........
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 02:16

BOING BOING! says stuff we KNOW: https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=131106

"BOEING STATEMENT on YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGdyIV3z3qA
"The F/ A-18 Super Hornet is fully compliant with INS Vikramaditya and IAC-1 aircraft carrier. Even though the carriers were designed to carry MiG-29K, Boeing has conducted various studies on the overall compatibility of Super Hornet with both carriers. Based on these detailed studies done over the last four plus years, we can say that F/A-18 Super Hornet is fully compatible with both carriers.

How?
More than 150 simulation studies including the successful ski-jump test conducted in September 2020 prove that the F/A-18 can operate from INS Vikramaditya as well as from IAC-1 and will meet or exceed the Short Takeoff but Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) performance requirements of the Indian Navy."

I.N.S. Vikrant's aircraft lifts too small? Calling out the bluff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGdyIV3z3qA

Attachments
BOEINGstatementCompatibilityShornetIndianCarriers.gif
Last edited by spazsinbad on 24 Jul 2022, 03:56, edited 2 times in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 03:24

FA-18E Super Hornet Tests INS Hansa GOA 2022 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioMwZWbnvO8

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 03:29

Interesting that THE AVIATIONIST thinks that the BLOCK III SupaDupa will have conformal fuel tanks. OH WELL....

https://theaviationist.com/2022/07/21/f ... net-india/ [both URLs have BOING! statementientos}
&
https://theprint.in/defence/f-a-18-supe ... g/1047629/

PHOTO: https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/u ... -tests.jpg
Attachments
Indian-F-18-testsED.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 22:19

BOING! test pilots speak F/A-18 Super Hornet's Goa Demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wga-hHIYAa0

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 9113
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post24 Jul 2022, 23:28

Odds clearly favor the Super Hornet. Yet, I am sure the IAF will get additional Rafales anyways. So, France losing the Naval Fighter order won't have much of an impact for them.


Of course I believe both are the wrong choice for India. Yet, they rarely make the right choice in the first place! :(
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 28119
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post02 Sep 2022, 19:34

02 Sep 2022 INS Vikrant Commissioned:
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... s-vikrant/
&
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/in ... r-AA11lCHC

PHOTO: "Vikrant while at sea trials (Indian Navy photo)" https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/up ... krant3.jpg
&
"INS Vikrant during sea trials (Cochin Shipyard photo)" https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/up ... 36x940.png
Attachments
VIKRANTseaTrials.jpg
INSvikrantSeaTrials.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2998
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post03 Sep 2022, 07:30

Carrier w/o aircraft. Aircraft testing hopefully can be completed without incident before year end.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 9113
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post05 Sep 2022, 02:11

The F-35C could have been an ideal deck fighter for the INS Vikrant.




https://idrw.org/f-35c-could-have-been- ... 83bqZYwCTg
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests