India and the F-35?

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milosh

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Unread post23 Nov 2022, 13:46

Corsair1963 wrote:So, your saying India is more capable of developing a Stealth Fighter than Turkey???? :|


As 100% domestic product yes. Turkey have big problem with important systems for fighter. They don't make engines nor radars.

India start tests of new engine in Russia, engine as we know is based on French M88 so quite modern engine.

UTTAM domestic AESA radar will be install in Tejas from 2024. It is also planned as upgrade for Su-30 and MiG-29. AMCA AESA radar is based on UTTAM tech but will not be just scaled up UTTAM (Su-30 variant).
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jessmo112

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Unread post24 Nov 2022, 01:32

milosh wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:So, your saying India is more capable of developing a Stealth Fighter than Turkey???? :|


As 100% domestic product yes. Turkey have big problem with important systems for fighter. They don't make engines nor radars.

India start tests of new engine in Russia, engine as we know is based on French M88 so quite modern engine.

UTTAM domestic AESA radar will be install in Tejas from 2024. It is also planned as upgrade for Su-30 and MiG-29. AMCA AESA radar is based on UTTAM tech but will not be just scaled up UTTAM (Su-30 variant).


The Turks are already building a prototype.

https://youtu.be/_LnEQipo4oU

It will be finished and likely flown by 2025.

Where is the Indian prototype?
This is what happens when you have access to a western type defense complex.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/o ... ew-fighter
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tphuang

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Unread post24 Nov 2022, 23:10

jessmo112 wrote:I think India bet on the wrong horse.
The S-400 means nothing versus modern stealth fighters as we have seen in Syria. Heck they haven't really slowed down Ukraine. Now you have 2 enemies that will soon have the ability to punish you at will.

Here are Indian options:

1. Stay the course and develop thier own stealth platform: This is not recommended you need only to look at the Tejas to understand why.

2. Stand down the S-400 and buy patriot, and F-35:
This is the wisest option to me.

3. Buy Turkey’s stealth drone or stealth fighter:
The Turkish industry seems to have really benefited from connections to western tech. This is the latest offering from Turkey.

4. Try and jump into another joint program with the US, SK, or Europe: Time here is a factor.

https://youtu.be/pZixxELTcCQ

I say they go #2 with #3 as a wise option.
The flanker airfore is quickly becoming a relic of the past

.


Keep in mind that Russians also leased nuclear submarines to India and provided a lot of assistance to India for their SSBN program. The Russians have been there for India for many decades and that is unlikely to be forgotten even if Russians are kind of useless now. From that point of view, I don't think F-35 will be offered to India anytime soon. Even if India takes S-400 offline, will US military feel comfortable selling F-35 to a country that still flies mostly Russian planes and have a lot of naval surface combatants that have Russians surface search radar? I doubt it. India would have to take a decade and get rid of all its Russian gears. Doesn't seem logical for India or America to get involved on something like F-35.

It's too bad for the Indians that the Russia/Ukraine conflict has exposed Russian weapons so much. Most of the countries that bought from Russia can just now buy from China. Not an option for Indians unfortunately.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post25 Nov 2022, 01:22

A Hornet Solution? [4 page PDF of article attached]
Dec 2022 Khalem Chapman

"Khalem Chapman explores Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Block III offering to the Indian Navy as it looks to further modernise its carrier-based fighter fleet....

...“The Super Hornet is a very proven platform, especially in combat these days,” explained Alain Garcia, vice president of Business Development for Boeing Defense, Space and Security in India and a veteran USN F/A-18E/F pilot, in a conversation with our sister title, Combat Aircraft Journal, earlier this year.

“It’s the backbone of the USN and I think between getting both a carrier-capable single-seat and two-seat jet gives a lot of flexibility. Everything on a Super Hornet is focused on carrier operations and the Block III just continues to encapsulate those lessons learned from Block I/II.

“Looking at the future, the Block III airframe is almost identical to the Block II, but everything inside the platform, in terms of avionics and sensors, is the latest and greatest. You’re having essentially fifth-gen avionics in a fourth-gen airframe if you want to look at it from that perspective. The way that the Super Hornet Block III is designed with its open mission system architecture allows for a lot of future growth and more of a rapid type of technology insertion versus the old way of doing business. I think there’s a lot of benefits there that the IN would get – actually anybody who buys the Block III – but especially the IN since they’re looking to operate from an aircraft carrier.”....

"...Carrier compatibility
Both of India’s aircraft carriers were designed with MiG-29K/KUB operations in mind, meaning a solution that results in the least modification work on the carriers would be a consideration for the Indian Navy to help keep costs down. One of the major questions in the acquisition of either the Rafale or F/A-18E/F has been whether or not the two respective fighters can fit on the Indian carrier elevators, as they were designed for the Fulcrum.

Garcia shed some light on this. “With the folding wings that Super Hornet has and the other competitor does not, we are able to fit onto the elevators and I think that makes a huge difference.”

However, the two carriers are likely to need slight modifications to accommodate the F/A-18E/F. “The one minor thing that we would need to adjust on the carrier is the holdbacks, the boards that pop up and then the MiG-29 will taxi up and the main gear will rest against these boards to hold the jet back while it runs up to full power.

“We have developed a solution where we would essentially use the same holdback fittings that are currently used by Super Hornet on the US Navy carriers. We would install something on the flight deck that would hook into the holdback fitting that we currently use, so it would just be a slight modification to the carrier without having to modify the jet. We can’t use the whole backboard, just because of the way our landing gear is set, but it’s a minor adjustment to the carrier. We’ve briefed the IN on this and, at least from our perspective; they seem to be fine with that solution.”

According to Garcia, the Russian arresting gear that is used by the two aircraft carriers for the MiG-29 also provides a slight limitation. “Just from my perspective, the limiting factor is not the jet, the limiting factor is the Russian gear – that they have to be able to handle the Super Hornet, given its ability to carry more weight.”

This suggests that in Indian service, the F/A-18E/F would not be able to operate at its maximum operational weight in order to accommodate the weight limits of the arresting gears already fitted to both carriers."... [These two details are NOT connected. Perhaps the Super Hornet cannot use the ski jump at Maximum Take Off Weight MTOW and THEN may NOT be able to arrest at the Maximum Carrier Landing Weight MCLW. Big Deal. (ironic perhaps)]


...The demonstration
On July 20, 2022, Boeing revealed that it had successfully completed a series of operational demonstration tests with a pair of USN F/A-18Es at INS Hansa in Goa. During which, the two fighters completed multiple ski-jumps, roll-in and fly-in arrestments and performance flights at a variety of weights in air-to-air/ground/surface configurations. The aircraft did not operate from the Indian carriers during this test campaign.

These tests came after the F/A-18E/F completed eight ski-jumps in various weights and configurations during a test series that was held at Naval Air Station (NAS) Patuxent River, Maryland, in late 2020, which proved the F/A-18E/F’s ability to operate from a STOBAR-configured aircraft carrier.

“We needed to demonstrate an X number of ski-jump flights in certain configurations consisting of air-to-air, air-to-ground and then air-to-surface,” Garcia said. “We were able to do that at various configurations and weights, obviously weight matters, in terms of fuel and weapons loadings etc.

Then we did a certain number of arrested landings to demonstrate the suitability, and that it can take the weight.

“As part of the landing demonstrations, they wanted to evaluate the ease at which the pilot can land the airplane on the flight deck. We were able to demonstrate our precision landing mode capability, which is built into the airplane, and that will also be part of the offering to the IN.

“It used to be known as Magic Carpet. It’s software put into the flight control system that allows a pilot to make a lot less corrections when flying on the glide slope behind the boat on the final approach. Once it’s engaged, it just allows the pilot to almost hold the stick and throttle where they are – because it’s auto throttle – and then you put the circle into the flight director and point it. You just hold it there and essentially; it’ll land right on that spot.

“Why I bring that up is because the flight deck of the Indian carriers are much smaller and there’s nothing needed externally, like there’s no linking between the boat and the Super Hornet to make that work. It’s all internal and we demonstrated this at the field there in Goa. I think that’s one of the big differentiators as well for our platform: we have that technology, designed specifically for operation around aircraft carriers.”

The IN is scheduled to choose between the Super Hornet and the Rafale M before the end of this year...."

Source: AIR International December 2022 Vol 103 No 5
Attachments
Super Hornet INDIA Air International Dec 2022 pp4.pdf
(1001.64 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos
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