milosh wrote:....
Because Erdogan don't give a F. about military. You guys forget military try to topple and probable kill him. It wasn't CIA which save its head but KGB. ... Deep state ... wanted to replace him And now you Americans ask ...
lbk000 wrote:Okay, that's fair. I can understand too if the F-35 is seen as a leash that would hold Turkey hostage to the will of Washington -- For Turkey, the loss of near term military advantage is a small price to pay for the liberty of preserving national ambitions.
Do not confuse Erdogan/Islamic ambitions with Turkey's national ambitions.
This is not complicated.
Erdogan developed islamic maniacal delusions. He wanted/wants to recreate the Ottoman empire. That required he directly destroy the Ataturk dream.
The Ataturk/EU political forces leaned to stemming that path. Whether the US stoked or simply endorsed such thoughts is academic. I strongly suspect Endogan preemptively triggered a fake revolt to stop it before it started. Turkish military coup's do not historically fail.
History shows that the number one threat to Turkey geopolitically is Russia. Odds are Russia will do a "Crimea Job" on them eventually. (KGB saviors? ROFL that's a good one!)
Second most likely is that Arab Islamic forces will disassemble Turkey into ISS/Kurdish/etc. pieces.
Third but not very likely is that Greece and other western states will subjugate a "european sub-state," restoring Ottoman conquest status quo.
None of these ends well for Turkey or Endogan. And there is no way the US is going to do anything but deliberately and slowly disentangle itself from the whole mess. The US is more focused on getting nukes, supply chains, companies, citizens, Christians et al out of Turkey, long before it "never" considers putting F-35's/Patriots in Turkey.
Bottom line for this forum - Turkey and F-35 are heading in opposite directions and will never meet again. (unless Greek F-35's bomb them in a not so hard to imagine future) Ataturk's dream is dead, and Ottoman delusions are evaporating like a mist in the winds, and with dear friends I weep over the whole thing.
MHO, (based on sources that are/were in country)
BP