The Turkey problem

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steve2267

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Unread post06 May 2018, 15:47

What happens if this whole geopolitical shotgun wedding goes sideways? Would the US be able to quickly, quietly, and safley remove all B61's and any other nukes? What if Erdogan says, no, you may NOT remove those from Turkey? Can they be destroyed in place? Is the B61 design robust enough that if they were to fall into enema (or unfriendly) hands, it could not be reverse engineered, or circumvented?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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wrightwing

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Unread post06 May 2018, 21:40

steve2267 wrote:What happens if this whole geopolitical shotgun wedding goes sideways? Would the US be able to quickly, quietly, and safley remove all B61's and any other nukes? What if Erdogan says, no, you may NOT remove those from Turkey? Can they be destroyed in place? Is the B61 design robust enough that if they were to fall into enema (or unfriendly) hands, it could not be reverse engineered, or circumvented?

I'm guessing they could be quietly loaded aboard aircraft, and flown somewhere else.
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Unread post07 May 2018, 17:27

Turkish F-35 sale could hit congressional roadblock
07 May 2018 Jeff Martin

VIDEO: https://dq0mmww6n9gqf.cloudfront.net/mc ... 0_1200.mp4 (6.25Mb)

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/video/defen ... roadblock/
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Unread post10 May 2018, 05:25

More 'tit for tat' yadda yadda yadda.... Shape Up or Ship Out from both sides. Who knew? Whats new? NADA - no change.
Turkey threatens US over bill seeking to halt weapons sales
09 May 2018 Burak Ege Bekdil

"...If passed as part of the National Defense Authorization Act, the U.S. Defense Department would have to provide Congress with a report on the relationship between the NATO allies. Sales of major defense equipment would be blocked until the report is completed.

One immediate casualty could be the U.S.-led, multinational Joint Strike Fighter program in which Turkey is a partner. Turkey has committed to acquire a batch of more than 100 F-35 fighter aircraft....

...“If passed the U.S. bill has the potential to altogether alter Turkey’s Western paradigm,” according to a presidential aide in Ankara. A senior procurement official said the bill would “kill all U.S.-Turkish procurement business in the several years ahead.” “The U.S. is no longer a sole-source supplier of the kind of equipment we buy from foreign suppliers. [buy crap then - wot me worry?] It won’t have the leverage our American friends hope it will,” the official said.

A senior Turkish diplomat said the bill would push Turkey further into the Russian orbit. “There is a lot we could jointly do with the Russians … from engine technologies to satellites,” he said...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... ons-sales/
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Unread post10 May 2018, 05:35

This all reminds me of the song 'I'm on a Mexican Radio' (what did he say?) "No comprende - its a riddle..." Wall of Voodoo.
Turkey to receive first F-35 fighter from US next month
09 May 2018 Uğur Ergan

"The United States will deliver the first F-35 joint strike fighter to Turkey on June 21 as part of a longstanding partnership between the two allies, despite attempts by the U.S. Congress to block the procurement of such weaponry to the Turkish government. According to defense industry authorities, the delivery of the first of the 30 F-35 fighters will be made on June 21 in a ceremony that will be held in the U.S....

...Pilots from the TSK [tsk tsk?] will receive intense training at the headquarters of the main producer of the F-35, Lockheed Martin, before the fighters will be transported to Turkey later this year, sources have said. Sources have also informed that arrangements are underway on military bases in Turkey where the F-35s will be deployed....

...Turkey has strongly criticized the U.S. Congress’ move and vowed to retaliate. “If they take such a step at a moment when we are trying to mend our bilateral ties, they will definitely get a response from Turkey. There is no longer the old Turkey,” Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu told private broadcaster CNN Türk in an interview on May 6."

Source: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey ... nth-131537

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marauder2048

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Unread post10 May 2018, 06:45

Hard to keep track of the various markups but:

F-35 sales to Turkey would not be through FMS. And the other
bill that I read only blocks the use of US funds to facilitate delivery
but very little in the way of US funds would be used anyway.
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talkitron

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Unread post11 May 2018, 22:54

The first Turkish F-35A is flying. See photos at the link below:

http://airwingspotter.com/1st-turkish-air-force-f-35a/
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Unread post13 May 2018, 02:19

First F-35 jet delivery to Turkey slated for June 21
11 May 2018 Sarp Ozer & Ahmet Sertan Usul

"Turkey will take its first delivery of U.S.-made F-35 warplanes on June 21, according to defense sources.

Two fighter pilots from the Turkish Air Forces are getting special training in the U.S., where the delivery of the first plane to Turkey is planned to be done with a ceremony, said the sources, who asked not to be named due to restrictions on speaking to the media. After the training is completed, and another warplane is delivered, the F-35 jets are planned to be brought to Turkey in September of 2019. The trained pilots will fly the two F-35s from the U.S., accompanied by a refueling plane.

In 2014 Turkey placed an order for the first two F-35 jets for the projected fleet of 100 F-35A aircraft and plans to deploy the aircraft by 2019. The F-35 jets are planned to be deployed at the 7th Main Jet Base Command in Turkey’s eastern Malatya province, where preparations have already begun to replace F-4 aircraft...."

Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/todays-headlin ... 21/1142561
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white_lightning35

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Unread post13 May 2018, 15:43

Not to sound dramatic, but I don't think a lot of people realize how and this is and how bad it could be. I don't see why they would not save the Russians the trouble and just give them an f-35 directly.
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sferrin

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Unread post13 May 2018, 16:36

white_lightning35 wrote:Not to sound dramatic, but I don't think a lot of people realize how and this is and how bad it could be. I don't see why they would not save the Russians the trouble and just give them an f-35 directly.


No kidding. We already saw this play out with Iran and the F-14. Just how stupid are we? :doh: :doh: :bang: :bang: :bang:
"There I was. . ."
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durahawk

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Unread post13 May 2018, 17:59

sferrin wrote:No kidding. We already saw this play out with Iran and the F-14. Just how stupid are we? :doh: :doh: :bang: :bang: :bang:


The Shah actually liked the United States when they received their first Tomcat. They same could not be said of Erdoğan.

This is even worse.
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jakobs

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Unread post14 May 2018, 03:37

tcu wrote:Dear Gentlemen, can't really believe those posts. How you easily become victims of CNN, Fox, etc...

Turkey is one of the first partners of the program, a long long years member of NATO, was ally of west against Soviet Communism, and many more.

Even though Turkey has been indirectly attacked and betrayed by US and European politicians for the last few years (via YPG/PKK and FETO), it has nothing to do with some childish scenarios such as we will handle F-35 to China, etc... I can't find a word to describe those Turkish/Muslim haters who can argue such nonsense as a black propaganda...

If you wonder the source of the problems in the recent years between Turkey and US, it is another topic, I can tell you much more than you really want. For example, you can start by asking your politicians why US had been rejecting selling Turkey the Patriot ADS a few years ago. But now, they are coming Ankara to offer Patriot just to cancel S400 deal. How funny that many people are talking about Turkey's defensive measures, but not talking what are causing them...

As I said, the problems and their sources is a different story. But you know very well that the above scenarios are just childish and baseless...


Never go full retard!
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Corsair1963

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Unread post14 May 2018, 04:08

Turkey keeps escalating the rhetoric by the day. Yet, her logic in doing so escapes me??? :?



Hell, this could be easily defused by Turkey with a few choice words. Yet, instead she keep fueling the flames! :bang:
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Unread post14 May 2018, 09:27

tcu wrote:
jakobs wrote:
tcu wrote:Dear Gentlemen, can't really believe those posts. How you easily become victims of CNN, Fox, etc...

Turkey is one of the first partners of the program, a long long years member of NATO, was ally of west against Soviet Communism, and many more.

Even though Turkey has been indirectly attacked and betrayed by US and European politicians for the last few years (via YPG/PKK and FETO), it has nothing to do with some childish scenarios such as we will handle F-35 to China, etc... I can't find a word to describe those Turkish/Muslim haters who can argue such nonsense as a black propaganda...

If you wonder the source of the problems in the recent years between Turkey and US, it is another topic, I can tell you much more than you really want. For example, you can start by asking your politicians why US had been rejecting selling Turkey the Patriot ADS a few years ago. But now, they are coming Ankara to offer Patriot just to cancel S400 deal. How funny that many people are talking about Turkey's defensive measures, but not talking what are causing them...

As I said, the problems and their sources is a different story. But you know very well that the above scenarios are just childish and baseless...


Never go full retard!


Man, is this a logical answer to this post? Don't talk about YPG/PKK, don't talk about FETO, don't talk about refused sell of Patriot, but, talk about blaming Turkey for high tensions and Turkey's defensive measures. Good good...

No problem about Turkey, or delivery of her F-35s. The problem is about US politicians' attitude against her ally...



Sorry, NATO was formed to counter Russia (i.e. former Soviet Union) not buy Weapons from them. In addition to add insult to injury Russia has been acting very badly over the last few years. Like invading Georgia and Ukraine and stirring up trouble in Syria! Honestly, I was very supportive of Turkey getting the F-35. As I was sure this was just one big misunderstanding. Yet, like many in the "West" I am getting very very tired of the threats!

Turkey would be making a colossal mistake! If, she forces a break with Europe and the US. Yet, the reverse can't be said....So, go ahead she can shoot herself in the foot. Yet, she shouldn't complain when she has to have her foot amputated!

Her whole Military is built on Western Weapons Systems. What is she going to turn to Russia for help when this all blows up in her face???
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Unread post14 May 2018, 13:14

Turkey indirectly contributed to the growth of IS and other extremist organizations for a long time -- focusing only on the Kurds and getting rid of Assad.

Big mistake.

The US had no alternative but working with YPG to handle IS. Turkey carry part of the blame for that.

Did the US really stop sales of Patriot in the past? I strongly doubt that! AFAIK it was Turkey who decided not to buy Patriot and very provocatively decided for S-400 instead.

Turkey currently hold US citizens as hostages. This is unprecedented and a very hostile action against a key NATO ally.

They previously held also Germans as hostages but I believe those have all been released now? What about France, are there currently any French hostages in Turkish prisons?

Turkey is also ignoring basic rights like freedom of expression, democratic rights, etc. Important values that NATO members are expected to share.
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