The Turkey problem

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jakobs

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Unread post06 Dec 2020, 23:29

Wasn't it already included in the bill a last year/the year before that that the S-400 deal was major and needed to be sanctioned? I'm pretty sure it was, still nothing happened.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Dec 2020, 05:46

element1loop wrote:This is a going to make it rather difficult to work closely with the Indian armed forces.



Clearly, a deal between the US and India for the F-35. Would be very much in the interests of both nation. Yet, how do they work around the Turkey problem???

:|
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blindpilot

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Unread post07 Dec 2020, 06:43

Corsair1963 wrote:
element1loop wrote:This is a going to make it rather difficult to work closely with the Indian armed forces.



Clearly, a deal between the US and India for the F-35. Would be very much in the interests of both nation. Yet, how do they work around the Turkey problem???

:|

What Turkey problem?

I think as pondering pundits we complicate things too much. If we learn nothing from Russian and Chinese diplomacy, we should realize they/you/we don't have to be consistent and fair. Let the little snowflakes run away crying.

What problem. Tell Turkey to go sit on a stick because we don't like their ugly faces. End of issue,...
they chose to leave the West.
Tell India, now you have an S-400 problem ... what's your thoughts on how you can deal with it ... If India is in love with shiny S-400's then I guess they don't want F-35s. Very simple, no problem at all.

MHO anyway,
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Dec 2020, 06:49

blindpilot wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
element1loop wrote:This is a going to make it rather difficult to work closely with the Indian armed forces.



Clearly, a deal between the US and India for the F-35. Would be very much in the interests of both nation. Yet, how do they work around the Turkey problem???

:|

What Turkey problem?

I think as pondering pundits we complicate things too much. If we learn nothing from Russian and Chinese diplomacy, we should realize they/you/we don't have to be consistent and fair. Let the little snowflakes run away crying.

What problem. Tell Turkey to go sit on a stick because we don't like their ugly faces. End of issue,...
they chose to leave the West.
Tell India, now you have an S-400 problem ... what's your thoughts on how you can deal with it ... If India is in love with shiny S-400's then I guess they don't want F-35s. Very simple, no problem at all.

MHO anyway,
BP


That would be great. If, the world actually worked that way..... :|
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jessmo112

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Unread post14 Dec 2020, 20:42

It looks like the sanctions have arrived.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-po ... b05a67191b
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jessmo112

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Unread post15 Dec 2020, 10:38

Did you guys see this tweet about Denying the U.S. passage through the straight?
Or kicking out The us from bases?



https://twitter.com/abdbozkurt/status/1 ... 8749209601
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Unread post15 Dec 2020, 21:42

US Sanctions Turkey Over S-400 Buy
14 Dec 2020 Jennifer-Leigh Oprihory

"The State Department on Dec. 14 announced sanctions against Turkey’s Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) over the country’s purchase of the Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile system—a move the Trump administration has threatened for more than a year.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo carried out the sanctions allowed by the 2017 Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA), which lets the U.S. government retaliate against those who do significant business with entities connected to Russia’s defense or intelligence sectors.

Pompeo said that SSB’s dealings with Russia defense-export agency Rosoboronexport to obtain the S-400 triggered CAATSA sanctions. Buying the S-400 reportedly cost more than $2 billion, according to the Associated Press. The air defense systems began arriving in Turkey in mid-2019.

The State Department said the sanctions are intended to “impose costs on Russia in response to its wide range of malign activities,” and not to undermine Turkey’s “military capabilities or combat readiness.”...

...American lawmakers have urged the executive branch to levy CAATSA sanctions, and added a provision in the fiscal 2021 defense policy bill to make them mandatory.

In October, a bipartisan pair of senators sent a letter to Pompeo pushing for sanctions amid worries that Turkey may have used the S-400 system to track American-made F-16s. The jets were returning from an August exercise that Cyprus, France, Greece, and Italy held in response to Turkish aggression in the Mediterranean Sea, Air Force Magazine previously reported."

Source: https://www.airforcemag.com/us-sanction ... s-400-buy/
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strykerxo

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Unread post04 Feb 2021, 21:07

How nearsighted will we be? Technology transfer and theft, why is this even a question?

Turkey has hopes:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN29K1HS

UAE peace deal in question
https://www.airforce-technology.com/new ... -sale-uae/
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XanderCrews

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Unread post05 Feb 2021, 04:24

strykerxo wrote:How nearsighted will we be? Technology transfer and theft, why is this even a question?

Turkey has hopes:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN29K1HS

UAE peace deal in question
https://www.airforce-technology.com/new ... -sale-uae/



I like how Erdogon is playing both the "hey we are in NATO" and the "hey we buy outside of NATO, despite NATO" Card.

I don't think the situation changes in Turkey because this was not a uniquely Trump-created scenario. This is a simple no-go in terms of allied military coordination and cooperation, which is the entire point of NATO.

In short, Erdogon is both married when his wife has something nice for him, and magically unmarried when talking to an attractive cocktail waitress.
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ricnunes

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Unread post05 Feb 2021, 04:39

XanderCrews wrote:In short, Erdogon is both married when his wife has something nice for him, and magically unmarried when talking to an attractive cocktail waitress.


Pssst, don't tell anyone but I'm Erdogan :mrgreen:

(just kidding)
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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madrat

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Unread post05 Feb 2021, 13:31

Wait, how is the cocktail waitress less attractive when you're married? I think the real world works in reverse to that logic.
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Unread post06 Feb 2021, 08:14

Biden Extends Ban on Turkey Buying F-35 Stealth Fighter
05 Feb 2021 Marcus Weisgerber

"Pentagon spokesman urges Ankara “not to retain” an advanced Russian air-defense system.

The Biden administration will not lift the Trump administration’s ban on Turkey buying F-35 stealth fighters, a punishment for Ankara’s 2019 purchase of a Russian air-defense system, a senior Pentagon official said Friday.

“Turkey is a longstanding and valued NATO ally, but their decision to purchase the S-400 is inconsistent with Turkey’s commitments as a U.S. and NATO ally,” Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby said during a Friday afternoon press briefing. “Our position has not changed. The S-400 is incompatible with the F-35 and Turkey has been suspended from that program. We urge Turkey not to retain the S-400 system.”...

...The U.S. Air Force last year said it would buy the Turkish jets already built, but not delivered, by defense contractor Lockheed Martin. Turkish companies are expected to continue manufacturing and supplying F-35 parts to Lockheed through 2022."

Source: https://www.defenseone.com/business/202 ... er/171896/

Biden’s Pentagon to Keep Turkey Out of F-35 Program
05 Feb 2021 Rachel S. Cohen

"The Biden administration is continuing its predecessor’s policy of excluding Turkey from the international F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby indicated Feb. 5....

...The U.S. urges Ankara not to keep the S-400, which began arriving in 2019. Turkey should instead invest in the American-made Patriot air defense missile system, Kirby added.

“Turkey had multiple opportunities over the last decade to purchase the Patriot defense system from the United States and instead chose to purchase the S-400, which provides Russia revenue, access, and influence,” he said.

The U.S. Air Force bought the eight F-35As initially built for Turkey, but never delivered under an $861.7 million contract. Turkey had already ordered when it was ousted, and is being cut out of the F-35 supply chain over the course of the next two years as well....

...Turkey’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said last year it wanted the U.S. to handle the dispute “through dialogue and diplomacy,” not sanctions.

“Turkey will take the necessary steps against this decision, which will negatively affect our relations and will retaliate in a manner and timing it deems appropriate,” the ministry wrote. “Turkey will never refrain from taking the necessary measures to safeguard its national security.”

Source: https://www.airforcemag.com/bidens-pent ... 5-program/
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Unread post06 Feb 2021, 14:37

2 page PDF about the OLD F-35A / S-400 TURKEY STORM in Flight International 10-16 July 2018 attached.
Attachments
TURKEY NO F-35 Flight International 10-16 Jul 2018 pp2.pdf
(225.47 KiB) Downloaded 94 times
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loke

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Unread post12 Feb 2021, 10:26

Turkey will not back down from its purchase of the Russian-made S-400 missile defence system, Presidential Spokesman İbrahim Kalın said on Thursday.


https://ahvalnews.com/s400/turkey-maint ... -spokesman

It should be made more clear in the media that the S-400 issue is not just an issue between US and Turkey but between NATO and Turkey.

I think NATO should give Turkey an ultimatum: "Keep S-400, or keep your NATO membership". Erdogan loves playing hardball with his opponents. On this particular point, NATO and the US should learn from him in their dealings with Turkey. He plays offended and wounded. Let him have his show, as long as he falls in line. He can always blame the mess on somebody else.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post12 Feb 2021, 14:52

loke wrote:
Turkey will not back down from its purchase of the Russian-made S-400 missile defence system, Presidential Spokesman İbrahim Kalın said on Thursday.


https://ahvalnews.com/s400/turkey-maint ... -spokesman

It should be made more clear in the media that the S-400 issue is not just an issue between US and Turkey but between NATO and Turkey.

I think NATO should give Turkey an ultimatum: "Keep S-400, or keep your NATO membership". Erdogan loves playing hardball with his opponents. On this particular point, NATO and the US should learn from him in their dealings with Turkey. He plays offended and wounded. Let him have his show, as long as he falls in line. He can always blame the mess on somebody else.


I assume the nervousness is driving him further into the sphere of Russia or China.
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