The Turkey problem

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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Oct 2021, 18:06

Turkey eyes jets, engine and subs as it moves further into Russia’s orbit [more or less? LIGHTENINGS for TURKEY!]
08 Oct 2021 Burak Ege Bekdil

"...In an interview with CBS show “Face the Nation,” Erdogan said America’s refusal to both deliver F-35 fighter jets — which Turkey agreed to purchase — and sell Patriot air defense missiles [QUE?] gave Turkey no choice but to turn to Russia for the S-400 anti-aircraft missile system. The acquisition was a point of contention between Turkey and NATO during the Trump administration, and that sentiment has carried over to the new administration....

...Turkey was kicked out of the U.S.-led, multinational consortium that builds the F-35 Lightening[sic] II. Washington also placed sanctions on Ankara in December 2020 via the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. The move was the first time the law was used to penalize a U.S. ally....

...[Erdogan] told reporters that Turkey intends to seek compensation for its removal from the F-35 program, possibly during a meeting with U.S. President Joe Biden on the margins of a Group of 20 meeting in October.

“We made a $1.4 billion payment. What will become of that?” Erdogan said. “We did not — and do not — earn this money easily. Either they will give us our planes or they will give us the money.”..."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... ias-orbit/
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RMR_22

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Unread post07 Oct 2021, 18:57

How much money have Turkish companies received for the components of the F-35 all these years?
More than what was paid by the Turkish government?
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blindpilot

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Unread post12 Oct 2021, 23:13

milosh wrote:....
@blindpilot

.... I really don't know why westerns think ...you probable don't know but it was Soviet Russia which only supported Kemalists in Turkey .... if you look non tzar's Russia, relation with Turkey are in fact quite good so image of Russia invading Turkey ... is pure nonsense. That was what I try to explain... .


Trying to avoid non F-35 rabbit holes but thought I'd reply to the conversation above with contemporary evolutions. Reality - facts don't care about our feelings.

Latest dancing - https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/20 ... nst-turkey

From a respected balanced source for mid east events - Al-Monitor.
Nevertheless, what many feared could now be turning out to be true. Indications are emerging that Moscow may be using the S-400 issue to apply pressure on Turkey at a time when Ankara is trying to improve its ties with the West.

The announcement last week by Alexander Mikheyev — the head of Russia’s arms export agency, Rosoboronexport — that the second batch of S-400s would soon be heading for Turkey created a stir in Ankara.
Fielding questions from reporters during the Army 2021 Forum in Moscow, Mikheyev said the final touches were being given to an agreement regarding this sale.He said the deal would be finalized shortly. “We are working on it. And ‘shortly’ means this year, of course."
Clearly unhappy about the timing of this statement, Ankara’s response to Mikheyev was icy, to say the least.
....
“The Russian side is either declaring its intention or trying to manipulate the cooperation we are engaged in with the United States,” the source said.
...
“At this point, Russia has nothing to lose as far as the S-400s are concerned. The sale has been concluded and the money received,” said international relations professor Ilter Turan from Istanbul’s Bilgi University.
When questioned by Al-Monitor, Turan suggested that Moscow is also pleased by the political results of this sale.

“Regardless of whether Ankara makes these systems operational or not, this purchase has resulted in doubts about Turkey’s commitment to [NATO] and sowed the seeds of discord within the alliance,” Turan said.

Analysts believe Erdogan is caught between a rock and a hard place with regard to Russia today. His vision of establishing strategic ties with Moscow to replace Ankara’s seriously deteriorated ties with the West has proven to be little more than a pipe dream.
Ankara has discovered over these past three years in particular that differences with Moscow and Russia over issues such as Syria, Libya, the Caucasus and Ukraine are not only insurmountable but are also sources of potential tensions between the two countries if not managed carefully.
This has also been a period in which Erdogan has had to reflect more realistically on just how dependent Ankara is on the West for a host of reasons, the most pressing one being the state of Turkey’s deteriorating economy.
....
Erdogan’s political position at home has been weakened due to mismanagement by his administration on many levels, so he can ill afford to be seen as backpedaling on such a controversial issue.
He knows that doing so would add fuel to the opposition’s claim that his foreign policy choices have been disastrous for Turkey.
Many argue that Erdogan has landed himself in a trap of his own making with the S-400 issue by handing Russia a card that it can use to try and influence Turkey’s decisions.
Moscow is closely monitoring Erdogan’s efforts to reach out to the West for economic support and assistance against a new flood of refugees, this time from Afghanistan.
“Making such a statement at a time when Turkey is trying to improve ties with the United States could be an attempt to try and obstruct that process,” said Turan, referring to the remarks by the CEO of Rosoboronexport.
The Russian side has also made it known through various channels that it is generally unhappy with Turkey’s positions on regional conflicts ranging from Syria and Libya to Ukraine and the Caucasus.

Al-Monitor’s Amberin Zaman has highlighted Moscow’s most recent rebuke to Turkey over Ukraine and Crimea....
Russia is doubly sensitive to this issue because Turkey is supplying the Ukrainian military with the same drones that it supplied the Azeri armed forces with to great effect.
The once much-touted notion by Erdogan and his followers that Turkey and Russia could establish strong ties with a view to jointly opposing the West has proven to be the fallacy that it always was.
Made aware of this at a time when it faces serious problems on all sides, Ankara is trying to restore its place in the Western alliance.
...
“Turkey is taking steps at the present time to balance the ties it is developing with Russia. Turkey and Russia continue to cooperate but at the same time they are trying to counterbalance each other's strength,” Turan said.
- - -
"Semih Idiz is a columnist for Al-Monitor's Turkey Pulse. He is a journalist who has been covering diplomacy and foreign policy issues for major Turkish newspapers for 30 years. His articles have been published in The Financial Times, The Times of London, Mediterranean Quarterly and Foreign Policy magazine."


Erdogan is up to his neck in muck ... and Russia is no friend. There will be no Turkish recovery of F-35's

still MHO
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steve2267

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Unread post13 Oct 2021, 00:18

Are US nukes in Turkey the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about? I presume the US still has tactical nukes, probably B61's in Turkey. Are they "de facto" hostage there? I see no really great reason for keeping them there, but if the US were to try to fly them out, would Turkey block such a move?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post13 Oct 2021, 00:51

Turkey is still a member of NATO AFAIK. B61s or whatever have been stationed there for a long time through other thick & thin times. Security for same would be excellent over all these years with lots of contingency plans for them; just in case.

NTI source: https://www.nti.org/learn/countries/turkey/ & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Threat_Initiative
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spazsinbad

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Unread post18 Oct 2021, 06:56

Turkey: US proposed to sell it F-16 fighters
18 Oct 2021 Burak Ege Bekdil

"ANKARA — Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Oct. 17 the United States has proposed the sale of a batch of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey to compensate Turkey’s $1.4 billion investment in the U.S.-led multinational F-35 program....

...Erdogan has been pressing the Biden administration either to deliver the two F-35s built for the Turkish military or return Turkey’s $1.4 billion payment for the aircraft...." [$700 million per aircraft - not bad eh]

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/10 ... -fighters/
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