Swiss Lightning?

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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Sep 2021, 06:00

hythelday wrote:Navy Upgrades F-5 Adversary Fighter, Improving Safety, Readiness
September 21, 2021 by Seapower Staff

https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-upgra ... readiness/

The Navy delivered the first F-5N aircraft to Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, to begin ground and flight test of the F-5 block upgrade prototype project. The results of these tests will provide data to be used as a major element in the conversion of the 16 F-5E and six F-5F aircraft the Navy recently acquired from the Swiss air force


Not clear whether Swiss F-5s are already in the States or not, but they will be transferred to US at some point, as part of the offset in F-35 deal.

It seems they are in USA already? https://www.navair.navy.mil/news/Navy-u ... 02021-1442
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Sep 2021, 06:29

The USN has purchased a number of F-5's from the Swiss over the years.....
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post23 Sep 2021, 06:55

That's a pretty clever business deal.

US: We'll buy back your old aircraft, because we still use them as aggressors.

No other country is going to match that offer along with providing a 5th gen fighter.
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14yellow14

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Unread post27 Sep 2021, 23:26

Question asked in the Swiss parliament about F-35 costs and inflation:

https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb ... d=20217884


The Federal Assembly — The Swiss Parliament

Air2030/F-35: Inflation-adjusted offer


The 5,068 billion offered for the 36 F-35 fighter jets are not adjusted for inflation. According to the Tages-Anzeiger of 21 September 2021, the fighter jet manufacturers also had to offer prices adjusted for inflation.

- What is the inflation-adjusted offer price for the F-35?

- Does the F-35 also underseen its competitors by a whole billion in terms of price-adjusted offers?


ANSWER OF THE FEDERAL COUNCIL 27/09/2021

The procurement costs for the F-35A amount to 5.068 billion Swiss francs at the time of the offers as of February 11, 2021 and are therefore in the specified financial volume of the planning decision. We understand the first question to mean that the price is in demand with the offset inflation. The total costs, which consist of procurement and operating costs, amount to around 15.5 billion Swiss francs for the F-35A over 30 years and including inflation. The difference to the second cheapest candidate is in the range of 2 billion francs and not 1 billion francs, as listed in the question.
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go4long

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Unread post28 Sep 2021, 15:26

14yellow14 wrote:The difference to the second cheapest candidate is in the range of 2 billion francs and not 1 billion francs, as listed in the question.


That is the biggest middle finger to the person asking the question in the entire thing. Not only is the question stupid, you didn't even get the premise of the question right.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post29 Sep 2021, 07:47

go4long wrote:
14yellow14 wrote:The difference to the second cheapest candidate is in the range of 2 billion francs and not 1 billion francs, as listed in the question.


That is the biggest middle finger to the person asking the question in the entire thing. Not only is the question stupid, you didn't even get the premise of the question right.


LOL, I like how that unfolded... :D

Now I don't see any way how F-35 could lose Finnish competition or any serious competition in the future. It's clearly the most capable, most survivable, least costly (with possible exception of Gripen) and most future-proof with big and fastly growing user base and worldwide fleet.
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commisar

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Unread post16 Nov 2021, 21:26

hornetfinn wrote:
go4long wrote:
14yellow14 wrote:The difference to the second cheapest candidate is in the range of 2 billion francs and not 1 billion francs, as listed in the question.


That is the biggest middle finger to the person asking the question in the entire thing. Not only is the question stupid, you didn't even get the premise of the question right.


LOL, I like how that unfolded... :D

Now I don't see any way how F-35 could lose Finnish competition or any serious competition in the future. It's clearly the most capable, most survivable, least costly (with possible exception of Gripen) and most future-proof with big and fastly growing user base and worldwide fleet.


Boeing desperation to sell some Super Bugs could spoil the Finnish tender.
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pakal

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Unread post18 Nov 2021, 08:44

Whith regards to the F35 in Switzerland, what will happen to the Swiss collaboration with Huawei? Sunrise the second Swiss operator is more than committed with them for its 5G network

https://www.huawei.com/en/news/2019/10/ ... ion-center
https://e.huawei.com/fr/case-studies/le ... -solutions
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noth

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Unread post18 Nov 2021, 18:24

A parliamentary commission of investigation has been formed to investigate how the plane was selected, notably to see if geostrategic (wahwahwah we didn't buy from the EU!) considerations were taken into account. Bit of a witch hunt, we'll see were it goes.
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hythelday

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Unread post18 Nov 2021, 18:42

Good, chance for even more info to be revealed.
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14yellow14

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Unread post21 Nov 2021, 20:40

Fighter jets: a document tries to discredit the choice of the Federal Council, Airbus suspected

A document handed over to Swiss politicians attempts to discredit the Federal Council's decision to choose the F-35 as its new fighter jet. Eyes turn to Airbus, a disappointed manufacturer of the Eurofighter

Read more: https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/avions-co ... -soupconne


Google Translate: https://www-letemps-ch.translate.goog/s ... tr_pto=nui
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14yellow14

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Unread post27 Nov 2021, 22:17

Air2030: Contracts in place for F-35A and Patriot

Bern, 26.11.2021 – armasuisse has agreed contract terms with the US government for the purchase of the F-35A fighter aircraft and the Patriot longer-range ground-based air defence system. Assuming an exchange rate of CHF 0.95 to the US dollar, this results in guarantee credits of CHF 6.035 billion for the aircraft and CHF 1.987 billion for the air defence system. This is less than the anticipated financial cost. The planning decision on procuring the fighter aircraft, which has been approved by Swiss voters, allows for a financial cost of CHF 6.3 billion, taking into account inflation forecasts up to 2031 and anticipated payments.

On 30 June 2021, the Federal Council decided to purchase 36 F-35A fighter aircraft from Lockheed-Martin and five Patriot fire units from Raytheon. It will request Parliament to approve the guarantee credits in the 2022 Armed Forces Dispatch. Since this decision was taken, the procurement contracts with the US government have been finalised. Known as letters of offer and acceptance (LOAs), these are initially signed by one party, i.e. by the USA. As soon as Switzerland also signs the LOAs, they come into effect.

Payment schedules as a basis for drawing up the guarantee credits
As soon as the LOAs are signed, the payment schedules also become available. In addition, the DDPS and the Federal Finance Administration (FFA) have updated the inflation forecasts. This has made it possible to calculate the guarantee credits.

The prices offered are in US dollars until delivery. An exchange rate of CHF 0.95 to the US dollar was assumed for calculating the guarantee credits. This assumption has remained unchanged since the June 2021 evaluation report. The rate has been calculated conservatively as things currently stand. Depending on how the rate develops, the Federal Council may apply a different rate in the Armed Forces Dispatch. The Federal Council usually hedges the exchange rate after the parliamentary decision has been taken, thus limiting the currency risk.

F-35A: Potential financial cost undercut
On 27 September 2020, Swiss voters approved a budget of CHF 6 billion for the fighter aircraft in the planning decision. This amount is based on the national consumer price index from January 2018. Based on current forecasts for inflation up to 2031 and the payments envisaged, the maximum financial cost is CHF 6.3 billion.

The anticipated financial cost will be less: calculations currently indicate that a guarantee credit of CHF 6.035 billion will be required for the 36 F-35A fighter aircraft. This covers the following items:

• CHF 3.828 billion for the 36 F-35A aircraft
• CHF 1.927 billion for the logistics package, including ground material, replacement material, documentation, training, and technical support from the manufacturer during the rollout
• CHF 107 million for ammunition
• CHF 86 million for training, mission planning and evaluation systems
• CHF 82 million to cover potential technical risks: the F-35As are being purchased with the same configuration as used by other countries, and the manufacturer will produce the aircraft applying the same standards and procedures as used for over 3,000 aircraft. This means that the risk premium is expected to be low in comparison with other procurement projects.
• CHF 5 million for the assumed inflation level. A low figure can also be used for inflation, as inflation only affects that part of the transaction involving direct orders in Switzerland, i.e. to RUAG.

Patriot: Guarantee credit of CHF 1.987 billion

The US government has also submitted the contracts for the Patriot longer-range ground-based air defence system. They are subject to the same conditions as those for the F-35A. The Patriot procurement is currently expected to cost CHF 1.987 billion.
An exchange rate of CHF 0.95 to the US dollar has again been assumed. The risks are comparable to those of the aircraft procurement.

Offset transactions: CHF 4.2 billion to return to Switzerland
The two procurements result in offset transactions worth CHF 4.2 billion. The aircraft manufacturer has agreed offset transactions worth CHF 2.9 billion, around CHF 1 billion of which will be direct offsets, i.e. orders placed by the foreign manufacturer with Swiss companies in connection with the aircraft procurement. In addition, the manufacturer of the ground-based air defence system has agreed to CHF 1.3 billion in offsets, including CHF 260 million in direct offsets. The offset commitments must be met no later than four years after delivery. No offsets arise in relation to value-added tax, the risk surcharge or direct federal government contracts with Swiss companies.

Source: https://www.vbs.admin.ch/content/vbs-in ... 86118.html
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spazsinbad

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Unread post30 Nov 2021, 01:48

Switzerland signs Air2030 contracts
29 Nov 2021 Gareth Jennings

"Switzerland has signed for both the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II and the Raytheon Patriot ground-based air-defence systems (GBADS) to fulfil its Air2030 requirement.

The Federal Council announced the milestones on 26 November, some five months after the country announced its decision in July to procure 36 F-35As and five Patriot GBADS based on the highest overall benefits for the lowest overall costs.

“Contracts for the purchase of the F-35A combat aircraft and the Patriot long-range ground-to-air defence system have been finalised by Armasuisse with the US government,” the council's announcement stated...."

Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/air- ... -contracts
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optimist

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Unread post06 Dec 2021, 02:31

Depending if there is a petition exit clause in the contract? If it's all done and dusted. I wonder whether this will nullify the petition to not buy aircraft?
Aussie fanboy
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sunstersun

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Unread post06 Dec 2021, 04:13

Even rabid idiots on the internet will take a pause after Finland.
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