Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Yah, what do these Israelis know...compared to corsair1963.

Yah, what do these Israelis know...compared to corsair1963.

I know the F-35 is vastly more capable than any 4th Generation Fighter including the F-15EX/IA.


In addition we know the USAF didn't want the F-15EX. Yet, it's going to get it.


My point here is the same is true of the IDF/AF with the F-15IA....


Hell, same argument we heard back in the early 1980's. With people making a case for Newer Versions of the F-4 over the F-15 and F-16....

It is a poor choice as the F-35 is vastly more capable and even cheaper!
Let's see it will be a few years before these new F-15EX/IA's would arrive. (2025+) When, they do they would have service life of 20-30 years. So, you think they will be a viable platform in the year 2045 or 2055!
Now if you want a stop-gap for a decade. Plenty, of second hand Eagles on the market. Which, Israel could easily upgrade....(not that either is a good option)

It's more complex than F-15IA vs F-35i.
The IAF want to buy a squadron of a brand new F-15IA but also to upgrade the existing F-15i squadron to IA standart.
On the same process to retire the old F-16C/F-15C and to remain with dual seater jets only which can use it's smart weapon.
It's a big varity of smart weapon which fit the dual seater F-15/F-16 but most of it does'nt fit the F-35i yet.

It is a poor choice as the F-35 is vastly more capable and even cheaper!
Let's see it will be a few years before these new F-15EX/IA's would arrive. (2025+) When, they do they would have service life of 20-30 years. So, you think they will be a viable platform in the year 2045 or 2055!
Now if you want a stop-gap for a decade. Plenty, of second hand Eagles on the market. Which, Israel could easily upgrade....(not that either is a good option)

It's more complex than F-15IA vs F-35i.
The IAF want to buy a squadron of a brand new F-15IA but also to upgrade the existing F-15i squadron to IA standart.
On the same process to retire the old F-16C/F-15C and to remain with dual seater jets only which can use it's smart weapon.
It's a big varity of smart weapon which fit the dual seater F-15/F-16 but most of it does'nt fit the F-35i yet.

This has been expected for sometime now...

Clearly, buying a squadron of F-15's under pressure from Washington. Just like the USAF....

Yet reports from the actual area say the only pressure was to actually buy the extra F-35 ! What do they know compared to you ?

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 30,00.html

Well the f-15 carries a whopping 23000 lb. While the F-35 carries a measly 18000+lb.

It might just be political

In the "Real World" the F-15EX never carries 23,000 lbs. Just like it "NEVER" fly's at Mach 2.5. Honestly, how many times do we have to discuss this...

It's quite easy for the F-15EX to carry 23,000lb, just don't carry any external fuel and rely only on internal + CFT fuel which is still 23,000lb, both more than the F-35. It seems your F-15E 'real world' began and ended with Desert Storm payloads but Israel doesn't need EFTs to bomb Lebanon, Gaza or Syria, they are all on their doorstep. It obviously kills you when something other than F-35 gets bought, do you lose commission ?

The Dutch gave a peak into the prowess of the Lightning when a pair of stubbies escorted four Vipers against eight defending Vipers. The defenders reportedly never saw the Lightnings, NOR the attacking F-16's. Plus the Lightnings used the Slammers from F-16's they were escorting to down the defending Vipers. This example describes the so-called wormole effect or something like that.

I have no idea the Israeli Air Force requirements. I hope they plan well, and purchase platforms and weapons to achieve a desired effect. On the other hand, maintaining a robust, local defense industrial base may come in to play. Maintaining that expertise is important.

But perhaps the Israelis figure they can defeat Natanz, and perhaps Fordow (or at least entomb Fordow by destroying all entrances) with GBU-28's. Lightnings escorting F-15's carrying GBU-28's gives them that capability now, not in 4-5 years when the GBU-28 may be cleared on the F-35I. Perhaps those clever Israeli's have modified the GBU-28, or developed their own GBU-28-like bomb, or something better.

The Israeli's are big boys playing by big boy rules. I have a sneaking suspicion they know what they are doing.

Did a stelfy F-30 somfink aircrafts drop a 4th July package?

Iran declines to disclose cause of fire at Natanz nuclear site
04 Jul 2020 Al Jazeera English

"Iranian investigators have determined the cause of a fire at the Natanz nuclear plant, a spokesman for Iran's top security body said on Friday, while declining to immediately release details of the findings over "security reasons"....

...Iran's Atomic Energy Organisation initially reported an "incident" had occurred early on Thursday at Natanz, located in the desert in the central province of Isfahan. It later published a photo of a one-storey brick building with its roof and walls partly burned. A door hanging off its hinges suggested there had been an explosion inside the building.

The IAEA said none of its inspectors was at Natanz at the time of the fire and "that the location where the incident occurred does not contain nuclear materials"....

...Keyvan Khosravi, spokesman for the National Security Council, told IRNA news agency late on Friday that experts have "determined the main cause of the incident" but it "will be declared in due course for security reasons"...."

Photo: "© [WANA via Reuters]A view of a damaged building after a fire broke out at Iran's Natanz Nuclear Facility in Isfahan [WANA via Reuters]" http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tena ... 16jDbT.img

Source: http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/ira ... r-BB16jLMP

Did a stelfy F-30 somfink aircrafts drop a 4th July package?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-is ... sile-base/

<sarc on> Nope once again coincidence denies us the advantage of real data concerning F-35 performance. A flight of F-35's apparently took off with no in air refueling for the suburbs of Tehran, specificately the Parchin Military site, but ...
alas !!!! ....

Before we could find out if they actually had that range, and could slip the awesume powerful Tehran air defense network, it seems a "natural gas leak" somehow caused massive explosions at that critical well maintained military location.

"Later, Iranian Defense Ministry spokesman Davood Abdi blamed the blast on a leaking gas that he did not identify and said no one was killed in the explosion.

Satellite photos of the area, some 20 kilometers (12.5 miles) east of downtown Tehran, showed hundreds of meters (yards) of charred scrubland not seen in images of the area taken in the weeks ahead of the incident. The building near the char marks resembled the facility seen in the state TV footage."

Once again we simply cannot know the capabilities of the F-35 in range and stealth. some day perhaps ...
<sarc off>

FWIW,
BP

Accidents will happen I guess. Expect Iranian officials to be fired. Expect DENIALS from both sides to continue forever.

Cyber Strike By Foreign Force Caused Iran Explosion: Israeli Experts 02 Jul 2020 Arie Egozi

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/07/cyb ... i-experts/

US-Israel Talks Focus On Iran, Syria, & Arms
30 Jul 2020 Arie Egozi

"...Israeli also laid out its plans to build up its forces over the coming years, with a major emphasis on new aircraft – all of them to be bought from the US:

◾ The IDF wants to buy two additional fighter squadrons: 25 stealthy F-35 Joint Strike Fighters – to break through anti-aircraft defenses at the outbreak of war — and 25 of the latest upgrade of the non-stealthy F-15, the F-15EX – which can carry heavier bombloads through the resulting gaps in the enemy air defense.

◾ To keep these fighters operating at long ranges, Israeli wants to purchase the new KC-46A aerial refueling tanker, despite the program’s many problems.

◾ Finally, to support its ground forces, Israeli is seeking a new heavy-lift helicopter to replace its aging CH-53Ds, with the choice down to Lockheed’s much-upgraded CH-53K and Boeing’s CH-47F Block II...."

Source: https://breakingdefense.com/2020/07/us- ... yria-arms/

Israel To Get Direct Access To SBIRS Sats & More F-35 Capabilities; Esper Visiting
27 Oct 2020 Arie Egozi

"...the director general of the Ministry of Defense, Amir Eshel, went to the United States himself and joined Israeli teams already operating there who formulated all the clauses of the compensation package for Israel following the announcement of the possible sale of the F-35 to the Emirates.

Those who were in the negotiating rooms between Israel and the United States describe a very high commitment to Israel by their US counterparts.

According to Nir Dvori, senior defense correspondent for Israel’s N-12 news website and channel 12 TV, the shock in the defense establishment from the F-35 deal to the Emirates led to the new agreement with the United States.

Prime Minister Netanyahu, as Breaking D readers know, secretly approved the F-35 sale to UAE and did not tell the defense establishment....

...An Israeli defense source who talked with BD on condition of anonymity said that while the focus is on the early delivery of aerial platforms, the agreement signed last week gives Israel “additional” benefits that are crucial for reserving the Israeli qualitative military edge (QME).

The agreement will allow Israel to purchase some “very special ” weapon systems that are not manufactured by Israel. For example, it looks as if Israeli will get “deeper access to the core avionic systems of the F-35…Our source, who spoke on condition of anonymity “cannot confirm that it is in the written agreement. It can be said that an understating has been reached in relation with that issue.”

Better access to the stealth fighter’s core avionics is a crucial point for Israel in the face of likely sales to the UAE and other Arab states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Israeli Energy Minister Yuval Steinitz told the media that sooner or later they will ask for and receive the F-35.

Once the ban on selling the F-35 to Arab states is broken, the queue is expected to get longer."

Source: https://breakingdefense.com/2020/10/isr ... -visiting/

Israeli Politics, Sub Scandal Cloud Waters On US Weapons Buys
03 Nov 2020 Arie Egozi

"TEL AVIV: The fragile coalition that forms the Israeli cabinet is delaying the decisions on huge arms deals with American companies, mainly Boeing and Lockheed Martin. “The chaos in the cabinet has put the urgent need for some critical defense platforms on ice. This is something that should not happen in a country like Israel that can be forced into a major war at any minute,” a senior source that talked with BD on condition of anonymity said.

As reported by BD the cabinet must decide on the following issues: the purchase of additional F-35 and F-15 IAs, the purchase of a replacement for the aging CH-53, and the KC-46A to replace the aging 707’s that serve as aerial refueling aircraft in the IAF....

...The current $38 billion FMF agreement will expire in 2028. “No one can guarantee that a new FMF agreement will be signed and that is in a time when Israel will have to pay for big parts of the planned procurement” the sources said.

Not everything is on ice, apparently. The Defense Ministry did decide to to give priority to the purchase of 10 more F-35s before making a decision on an F-15 IA purchase. Sources told BD that this decision was made in response to a request from the F-35 Joint Program Office that wants Israel to exercise an option included in the first contract for 50 F-35 to keep the production line busy. A first meeting of a cabinet procurement committee that was planned for last week has been delayed indefinitely.

Lockheed and Boeing have been trying to get things moving in Israel, but with no success. The decision to first purchase 10 additional F-35 was made by Amir Eshel, director general of the Israeli ministry of defense. Eshel is the former commander of the Air Force and understands the need to fulfill the options that are part of the initial F-35 contract.

BD asked for comments from the main offices involved with the arms purchases, but was met with “no comment.”"

Source: https://breakingdefense.com/2020/11/isr ... pons-buys/

sources told BD that this decision was made in response to a request from the F-35 Joint Program Office that wants Israel to exercise an option included in the first contract for 50 F-35 to keep the production line busy

This just sounds like BS cover for a politically controversial but, IMHO, correct decision.

"Our foreign military aid provider told us to buy them"...tends to be an argument ender.

“Our foreign military aid provider told us to buy them"...tends to be an argument ender.“



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