Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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ricnunes

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Unread post06 Nov 2020, 22:24

marauder2048 wrote:
sources told BD that this decision was made in response to a request from the F-35 Joint Program Office that wants Israel to exercise an option included in the first contract for 50 F-35 to keep the production line busy


This just sounds like BS cover for a politically controversial but, IMHO, correct decision.

"Our foreign military aid provider told us to buy them"...tends to be an argument ender.


Indeed! As if the F-35 production line would need to depend on just 10 F-35s bound to Israel in order to remain busy :roll:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post11 Nov 2020, 20:44

Flight Testing Center Receives First Experimental "Adir" [BEST READ AT SOURCE FOR THE DETAILS]
11 Nov 2020 Shira Pansky and Dor Palkovic

"Today, the first test F-35I ("Adir") aircraft outside of the United States arrived at the IAF Flight Testing Center (FTC) at Tel-Nof AFB. Our reporters met with personnel from the FTC Squadron to learn about the aircraft that will advance the Israeli Air Force in its enhancement capabilities

November 11th, 2020, marks the start of a new era in the IAF Flight Testing Center (FTC) Squadron - for the first time in 14 years, a first of its kind fighter jet equipped with advanced experimenting capabilities will land at the squadron. The arriving "Adir" (F-35I), designated for flight experiments, will greatly enrich the IAF's independence in improving its division of fifth generation aircraft. What makes the jet so unique and how will IAF pilots stretch the limits and capabilities of one of the most advanced aircraft in the world?

"With the new addition of the 'Adir' to the lines of experimental aircraft in the Israeli Air Force's FTC Squadron, we are witnessing a historic event, the magnitude of which cannot be underestimated - a meaningful corner stone in the IAF's inauguration and development of the F-35 division", said Brig. Gen. Oded Cohen, Commander of Tel-Nof AFB. "To the FTC Squadron personnel - the absorption of the 'Adir' poses new challenges. I have no doubt that by virtue of your skill and professional spirit you will know, as you have proven in the past, how to challenge the limits of the 'Adir's' capabilities, and lead the IAF through toward new horizons".

Blue and White Munitions
One of the extraordinary aspects of the IAF is its use of Israeli operating systems and munitions on its various flight platforms. In the majority of the acquisitions made in cooperation with the United States, the IAF is given the opportunity to install its own electronic warfare, communications and weapons systems - all to accommodate the platforms to the relevant operational needs and requirements. For the F-35I, the situation is more complicated: "In the 'Adir' program, the IAF doesn't have access to everything, and cannot fully intervene", described Lt. Col. Y, Commander of the FTC Squadron....

...Providing Data
What grants the squadron personnel the ability to examine, receive data and dissect it to draw conclusions that will benefit the IAF? In addition to the flight and technical departments, the FTC Squadron has a systems department. The squadron's aircraft are equipped with systems that collect the data that is later used to examine the test outcomes. The systems department focuses on collecting and dissecting the data from the aircraft systems, including delivering the information in real-time to the squadron on the ground, where the test is closely monitored.

"The purpose of the systems is to provide data that the aircraft cannot display on its own, thus allowing for an effective de-brief and learning experience", said Maj. Manny, Commander of the Systems Department. Most of the systems are installed during the production of the jet, and the Systems Department can add additional ones according to the kind of test. "While planning for the acquisition of the experimental F-35I, the IAF began to establish the kind of testing that would be held. Accordingly, appropriate systems were assimilated during production".

In the near future, concurrent with the integration of the aircraft, American teams from "Lockheed Martin" will arrive at the squadron to deliver system instructions to its personnel. "The 'Adir' speaks a different language, one that we must connect with and learn to understand", mentioned Maj. Manny and Lt. Col. Y added: "The IAF knows how to operate the "Adir", but does not yet know how to operate an experimental model. We need to receive the relevant knowledge in order to operate the aircraft and fly it prior to the testing process"....

...Custom-Made Fighter Jet
Why exactly is this experimental F-35I model the first of its kind in the world? "To date, the only experimental F-35 models manufactured were aeromechanical testing aircraft of limited operational ability or testing models meant to examine specific systems. The arriving 'Adir' model has advanced aeromechanical testing capabilities and full operational capabilities. Similar to other equipped testing aircraft in the FTC, we could, if necessary, convert the model to an operational one".

"The test 'Adir' model is the first-ever to be manufactured in the United States, per our request. Now, they will likely produce additional aircraft based on the current model for themselves", detailed Lt. Col. Y. "As soon as we're fully prepared, we will be able to advance the 'Adir' Division and its capabilities"."

Photo: "Photography: Amit Agronov" https://www.iaf.org.il/Sip_Storage/FILES/8/84538.jpg (0.5Mb)

Source: https://www.iaf.org.il/9291-52545-en/IAF.aspx
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Unread post12 Nov 2020, 14:45

These modifications alone should ensure Israel's qualitative edge vs. the UAE (or any other F-35, for that matter). The avionics, weapons etc will be custom made for Israel's wants and needs and those are first and foremost: Control of the air and let's call it "Covert", Long Range Strike lol.

A whole hell of a lot of 4++ and 5th gen birds proliferating in the ME. Between Quatar, SA, Israel,UAE, Kuwait and Egypt - it's a high performance fighter buffet for aviation buffs.
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Unread post19 Nov 2020, 03:37

Israeli F-35s test Cyprus’ air defense system in joint exercise
19 Nov 2020 ALERT5 & Greek MoD later in English perhaps?

"A three-day exercise between Cyprus and Israel from Nov. 17-19 saw Israeli F-35s flying over Limassol and Paphos to test the local air defense system. Exercise ONSHILOS-GEDEON takes place in the Nicosia FIR...."

Source: http://alert5.com/2020/11/19/israeli-f- ... more-85616 & https://mod.gov.cy/en/ [later maybe]
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steve2267

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Unread post19 Nov 2020, 06:19

Do the Cypriots operate any Russian radars? I know there was a dustup around 20 years or so ago about Cyprus purchasing S-300 systems, but they went to Greece to avoid war with Turkey. If there are any Russian systems on Cyprus, perhaps these exercises were more for Israel to gather information about potential F-35 vulnerabilities to systems they face in Syria and elsewhere?

Dunno. Just spitballin'.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post19 Nov 2020, 08:26

steve2267 wrote:Do the Cypriots operate any Russian radars? I know there was a dustup around 20 years or so ago about Cyprus purchasing S-300 systems, but they went to Greece to avoid war with Turkey. If there are any Russian systems on Cyprus, perhaps these exercises were more for Israel to gather information about potential F-35 vulnerabilities to systems they face in Syria and elsewhere?

Dunno. Just spitballin'.


Yes they do. They have these systems:
http://www.army.gov.cy/en/page/aeroporias

Russian Buk-M1-2 (SA-17) and Tor-M1 (SA-15) systems and French Mistral MANPADs. The Buk M1-2 is an upgraded variant of Buk-M1 with slightly longer effective range/altitude. Those Russian systems are now pretty widespread in countries close to (and hostile to) Israel. Those countries also have Buk-M2 variants which are somewhat more capable but still work very similarly. I think it's very good exercise to test F-35 capabilities against a modern and capable system.
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Unread post19 Nov 2020, 12:26

hornetfinn wrote:
steve2267 wrote:Do the Cypriots operate any Russian radars? I know there was a dustup around 20 years or so ago about Cyprus purchasing S-300 systems, but they went to Greece to avoid war with Turkey. If there are any Russian systems on Cyprus, perhaps these exercises were more for Israel to gather information about potential F-35 vulnerabilities to systems they face in Syria and elsewhere?

Dunno. Just spitballin'.


Yes they do. They have these systems:
http://www.army.gov.cy/en/page/aeroporias

Russian Buk-M1-2 (SA-17) and Tor-M1 (SA-15) systems and French Mistral MANPADs. The Buk M1-2 is an upgraded variant of Buk-M1 with slightly longer effective range/altitude. Those Russian systems are now pretty widespread in countries close to (and hostile to) Israel. Those countries also have Buk-M2 variants which are somewhat more capable but still work very similarly. I think it's very good exercise to test F-35 capabilities against a modern and capable system.


That wouldn't be the first time Israel trains with Russian-made systems, either in Cyprus, Greece (S-300) or elsewhere. Besides they have the real deal right across the border, and Israel hasn't been too restrained about bombing Syria/Iran/Hez targets for the past several years now. Israel undoubtedly has one of the best, if not the best, mission files for Russian systems.
I wouldn't look for any hidden meaning behind this exercise. At this point it is business as usual for a squadron that happens to have F-35s.
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Unread post14 Jan 2021, 15:32

Israel Decides to Add F-35s Ahead. :applause:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKBN2990PF
Israel's defence minister favours buying one more F-35 squadron for now
JANUARY 4, 2021 By Reuters Staff Writing by Dan William; editing by Jeffrey Heller, Larry King
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel’s defence minister said on Monday that he wants the country to buy a third squadron of stealth F-35 warplanes from the United States, and that he hoped a deal could be clinched before President Donald Trump steps down on Jan. 20.
Israel has been in talks with Washington on how to preserve its military advantage after the Trump administration approved a possible F-35 sale to the United Arab Emirates last year. The plane was previously available only to Israel in the region.
“Without doubt, we need to expand the F-35 array. Right now we have two squadrons. I reckon we will expand that. That is what I requested of the Americans,” Defence Minister Benny Gantz told Ynet TV.
“I would buy another F-35 squadron and then examine what to do with the balance - continuing to expand the F-35 (procurement), going for F-15s?”

Gantz did not specify the number of F-35s in the proposed new squadron. Defence officials have said the two squadrons already ordered by Israel consist of 50 planes.
Gantz’s coalition government with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu fell apart last month, triggering a March 23 ballot. Both men remain in their posts until a new government is formed after the ballot.
Asked if Israel might complete a defence procurement deal with the United States before Trump steps down, he said: “I hope so. I think the defence budget needs to be handled properly, to be safeguarded. It is a kind of active insurance policy.”
The F-35 is made by Lockheed Martin Corp and the F-15 by Boeing Co.
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Unread post15 Jan 2021, 17:39

I do think the Israeli's will opt for the F-15EX, probably customized to their needs as the XI, or IX. Whatever they designate it, it's going to be in service for a long, long time...
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Unread post08 Feb 2021, 07:35

Cabinet going for huge US-Israel aircraft deal
08 Feb 2021 UDI SHAHAM

"This decision ends a three-year-long dispute between the Defense Ministry and the Finance Ministry over the payment method of the deal.

An arms deal worth billions of dollars between the Defense Ministry and the United States for new fighter jets, tankers and helicopters received preliminary approval on Sunday by the security cabinet. This decision ends a three-year-long dispute between the Defense Ministry and the Finance Ministry over the payment method of the deal....

...According to sources, the deal also includes exercising the option of another F-35 squadron and on top of it, F-15ex, the newest fighter jet of the US Air Force...." [lots more unrelated to F-35 stuff at the URL]

Source: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/cabin ... eal-658176
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Unread post09 Feb 2021, 18:12

Israeli Cabinet OKs $9B US Arms Deal; Boeing KC-46As Top List
09 Feb 2021 Arie Egozi

"The $9 billion is aimed at purchasing the KC-46As, a new heavy helicopter to replace the Israeli air force CH-53, the purchase of V-22s, all this in addition to more F-35s and F-15 EXs. The estimated price of the KC-46As will be $1 billion....

...The $9 billion will also enable the IAF to acquire more F-35s and the new version of the F-15, dubbed by the IAF as the F-15IA (Israeli advanced). The additional F-35s will carry a price tag of about $2 billion. The F-15AI[IA] will cost $2 billion.

All these are rough estimates based on the cost of the platform, the changes the IAF wants to be made in the U.S, plus the infrastructure and spares. On top of all that, Israel wishes to buy some special weapon systems, which are priced at $1 billion. The money will be spent on “filling the stocks of the IAF in special bombs and missiles. These arsenals have shrunk in recent years as a result of the hundreds of attacks the IAF has performed against Iranian-related targets in Syria and ‘other places,'” one source said.

After the cabinet approval, the IAF will make its detailed recommendations. Then the Defense Ministry and its director-general will review those recommendations, which will be submitted for final approval by the procurement ministerial committee. It is expected that the IAF will now submit its detailed acquisition numbers and priorities so that the orders in the relevant companies can be formalized."

Source: https://breakingdefense.com/2021/02/isr ... -top-list/
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Unread post09 Feb 2021, 22:13

mixelflick wrote:I do think the Israeli's will opt for the F-15EX, probably customized to their needs as the XI, or IX. Whatever they designate it, it's going to be in service for a long, long time...

F-15IA which is the Israeli derivative of the F-15EX, but Israel wants P&W engines, so nothing set yet
http://www.boeing.co.il/%D7%9E%D7%95%D7 ... anced.page?

There are at least two deals:
- From Boeing: 25 new IAs and upgrade the existing 24 F-15i (derivative of F-15E) to IA standard + 1 squadron of CH-47 (with the new T408 engines) + few KC-46A + few V22
- From LM: 25 F-35i + few C-130J + upgrading 100+ F-16i (block 52+) to V standard

Big plans, there will be a lot of compromise and not all the planes will get into the deals.
We'll have to wait and see..
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Unread post10 Feb 2021, 01:02

I thought F-15EX used upgraded actuators compared to previous F-15E, to maybe meet FCS work. F-15I to F-15IA sounds like a radical SLEP of wings and wiring.
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Unread post10 Feb 2021, 02:13

The Qataris were probably the first to use the digital FBW in their F-15s.
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Unread post11 Feb 2021, 09:51

The Plane That Plays a Leading Role in Israel’s Shadow War on Terror

https://besacenter.org/perspectives-pap ... on-terror/
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