Finnish DefMin interested in F-35s, not Gripens

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4782
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post17 Dec 2022, 19:00

magitsu wrote:
ricnunes wrote:But aren't dispersed road operations considered as being emergency situations?


It's standard mode of operation in Finland in case of war.


Which in itself is an emergency situation, won't you agree? :wink:

But yes, I agree with you that Finnish F-35A's will use the chute more.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4388
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post29 Dec 2022, 10:53

I just have to write down some (rough) Finnish Air Force history after WW2 here:

1. We got our first jets in 1953 with 6 deHavilland Vampires

2. In 1958-1960 we received 12 Folland Gnats

3. In 1963 we received 20 MiG-21F-13. These were first fighters in Finnish service that had missiles (2xR-13/AA-2 Atolls)

4. In 1972-1976 we received 24 Saab 35BS/S Drakens

5. In about 1980 we replaced MiG-21F-13 models with similar number of MiG-21bis. Some F-13s were tasked with reconnaissance missions.

6. In 1980's we received further 18 Saab 35FS Drakens and 6 MiG-21bis to fully replace F-13s which were retired. Drakens were fitted with AIM-4, AIM-26 and AIM-9 missiles. MiGs had R-3, R-13 and R-60 missiles.

7. In 1995-2000 we received 64 F/A-18C/D Hornets (57 C and 7 D) with AIM-9M and AIM-120B missiles. No air-to-ground capability.

8. In 2016 Finnish Hornets received air-to-ground capability that was expanded during the following years. Weapons include JASSM, JSOW and JDAM in small (all likely two digit) numbers. Before that they also received JHMCS and AIM-9X

9. From 2025 onward we will receive 64 F-35As with significantly higher number (three digits each) of more capable air-to-ground weapons including JASSM-ER, JSM, JSOW, JDAM and SDB II.

I think it's pretty impressive how Finnish Air Force capability has been improved during the years. Early on after WW2, it was abysmal. Of course it was not until we received Hornets that the combat capability was anywhere near what it should've been. Draken and MiG-21 with their short ranged weapons would've had hell of a fight against much more capable and numerous Soviet/Russian aircraft. Hornet was a real great equalizer with AMRAAM and modern avionics... F-35 will be even better.
Offline

magitsu

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1112
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2015, 22:12

Unread post09 Jan 2023, 17:12

Finnish type designation will be JF (joint fighter).
(Hornet is HN, Draken was DK, MiG-21 was MG)

JF-501 will be the first, ending up with JF-564.
(Hornets started from 401, Hawks 301, Draken 201, Mig 101)

European bison aka Wisent (Fighter Squadron 11, Lapland Air Command) and Lynx (Fighter Squadron 31, Karelia Air Command) logos will appear on JF-511 and JF-531 vertical stabilizer respectively.
The national marking will be low-vis desaturated.

https://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/jf_el ... yppitunnus

By the way if you've ever wondered how Wisent ended up as the logo for the Northern Finnish Flight Squadron: it comes from a Polish booze label (likely Żubrówka), specifically seen on a glass coaster during a Dornier retrieval trip from Warsaw in 1941. :mrgreen:

f35.png
Official mock-up of the Finnish F-35A in Flight Squadron 31 identifier due to appear only on JF-531

https://twitter.com/FinnishAirForce/sta ... 5944504321
Offline

jhk

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2023, 06:52

Unread post19 Jan 2023, 08:39

hornetfinn wrote:I bet F-35A will be a really great aircraft for road operations and especially so in the night. EO DAS and helmet are likely really great tools to have and so is the drag/brake chute.


If that's a major consideration for you I really hope the Finnish gov. are buying the OLED upgrade with the HMDSes; green glow caused by the currently standard LCD version's backlight seems to undermine EODAS and the integrated NVis.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2021/12/08/f-35-helmets-that-fix-green-glow-are-on-their-way-but-not-to-the-air-force/

https://youtu.be/1Yjt9MlpmZo?t=2286
Offline

wrightwing

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4161
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 15:22

Unread post19 Jan 2023, 20:47

jhk wrote:

If that's a major consideration for you I really hope the Finnish gov. are buying the OLED upgrade with the HMDSes; green glow caused by the currently standard LCD version's backlight seems to undermine EODAS and the integrated NVis.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2021/12/08/f-35-helmets-that-fix-green-glow-are-on-their-way-but-not-to-the-air-force/

https://youtu.be/1Yjt9MlpmZo?t=2286

Finland won't receive its first F-35s till 2026. The OLED upgrade won't be an issue. Their aircraft will be Block 4 with the latest helmets.
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4388
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post20 Jan 2023, 08:46

Yes, they will definitely have those OLED helmets. I don't see any reason for any customer to buy anything else for new aircraft.
Offline

hkultala

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2018, 08:02
  • Location: Finland

Unread post20 Jan 2023, 20:31

Not sure where to post this, but maybe here. Originally I was thinking about posting this to Ukraine thread, but there are no news in this post, this is more about politics of Finland.

Our narcistic teenybopper prime minister has been too much raised as a symbol of other countries supporting Ukraine, and Finland joining NATO.

Here is a 1-year old reminder of what her REAL policy was like before she had to give up on public pressure.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fi ... 022-01-19/

She and her party (social democrats) had always been very much against Finland joining NATO, and her party had always had quite negative attitude towards USA. Then after the war started there was this official citizens initiative to apply for NATO membership which got required signatures in record time and all the polls where showing huge support for NATO and she had to change her mind.

And then she started lying that "she has always been supporting Finland joining NATO".

But the fact is that Finland asked to join NATO not because of her but despite her.


Why I'm posting this here: Because the rest of the world deserves to know the truth. She is not the hero you think she is.

Estonian prime ministerj Kaja Kallis is in totally different league. She is MUCH smarter and less selfish than Sanna, and has always been doing the right things about foreign politics.

And the finnish politician who has had the best understanding of Russias evilness is Jussi Halla-Aho. He had this speech, directed towards Russians immediately after Russia attacked Ukraine. Spoken on their own language, but subtitled to english here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GeHamqfK_k

But our PM Sanna hates him and refuses all cooperation with his party. Because he has been right on also other things where Sanna has been wrong.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 9110
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post21 Jan 2023, 00:12

Finland can wait a little longer for NATO Membership. Really, doesn't change anything....including Turkey as being a troublemaker!
Offline

northman

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2022, 17:56
  • Location: Finland

Unread post21 Jan 2023, 16:32

As a Finn can confirm that everything hkultala said above is true. Sanna Marin's party SDP just like Marin herself has traditionally been vocally opposed to Finland joining NATO, and can be described as anti-American in general and supporting close relations with Russia.

Now of course when Finnish people reacted strongly to the Ukraine war, these people have to pretend they were, all along, for NATO and for defense and Finnish freedom instead of being in the pocket of Russia among others. They were not. Instead, Marin and her party SDP were blaming real patriots like Jussi Halla-aho for being, drumroll, "far-right and nazi", using Russian propaganda rhetoric against him because he was openly against things like energy dependence on Russia, running down the Finnish Defence Forces and turning them into an impotent force for international peacekeeping missions, and opening Finnish borders for massive 3rd world migration that was largely orchestrated by Russia and indeed crossing into Finland over the Russian border.

I am frankly very annoyed that Sanna Marin is basking in the spotlight of international glory as some kind of protector of Finnish independence and friend of the west, when the truth is very different, and real patriots like Halla-aho are still called nazis by the likes of Marin. Disgusting. And yet, without Halla-aho and other guys like him, Finland would not have chosen American fighters to protect our skies, or allowed our military enough budget in general to resist against Russian attack with any hope. Oh well, it is an unjust world we live in.

I am just very happy that because of real patriots in the military and even in the parliament, the HX program was able to complete and choose the best fighter that was available, instead of choosing some outdated thing like Gripen as many in Marin's party were advocating. I will very much enjoy seeing people's reactions when the F-35s finally arrive here and our air force guys get to show what they can do with the plane and how much they like it. All those "stealth doesn't work against Russian super tech, F-35 slow and can't turn, F-35 needs a 5 mile runway and can't operate from Finnish road bases" guys are gonna be very disappointed, I'd bet. :devil:
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4388
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post24 Jan 2023, 07:01

Nice video about Royal Air Force F-35Bs training in Finland with Hornets last summer:


Video is in Finnish, but it's just generic info about the exercise.
Previous

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 37 guests