Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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Corsair1963

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Unread post21 Jul 2021, 23:37

I doubt the LTF will ever see the light of day. Yet, in the short-term at least it could spur more F-35 sales....



Thank You Mr. Putin :D
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go4long

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Unread post22 Jul 2021, 19:59

Corsair1963 wrote:I doubt the LTF will ever see the light of day. Yet, in the short-term at least it could spur more F-35 sales....



Thank You Mr. Putin :D


I'd assume that this jet will see some sales to various customers that don't have access to western tech. Iran comes to mind, Turkey, a couple others...we'll have to wait and see.

That all assumes that their very aggressive timeline somewhat holds, which seems unlikely at best. I'm planning to head back to MAKS again in 2023...so I guess we'll see if they can get something flying by then. The engine has been "coming in the next two years" for about a decade, so I'm not holding my breath.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post22 Jul 2021, 20:17

go4long wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I doubt the LTF will ever see the light of day. Yet, in the short-term at least it could spur more F-35 sales....



Thank You Mr. Putin :D


I'd assume that this jet will see some sales to various customers that don't have access to western tech. Iran comes to mind, Turkey, a couple others...we'll have to wait and see.

That all assumes that their very aggressive timeline somewhat holds, which seems unlikely at best. I'm planning to head back to MAKS again in 2023...so I guess we'll see if they can get something flying by then. The engine has been "coming in the next two years" for about a decade, so I'm not holding my breath.


theres already a LTF thread so I won't distract it too much more here, but like canada this is one of those things its probably best if you come back and check on it every year or couple years. If you look every day you will drive yourself insane.

We will know a lot more in one year with LTF, more in year after that. I have always dreamed of going to MAKS I don't think it will ever happen. How cool!

Corsair is certainly right, big picture this another blow to the "stealth is a passing fad" when it starts popping up as a regular thing in Africa, south America, etc.

Remember back in 2010s when you were weird if you had stealth and in the 2030s when you were weird if you didn't have stealth?
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jessmo112

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 03:21

Why spend billions to buy jets to win a war we won 30 years ago?

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contrib ... s-ago.html

The attitude of the Canadian press.
If they are going to give up sovereignty
To have us totally protect them, why even have a country?
Let's just annex them already.
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jessmo112

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 03:22

Before we lose $77 billion of taxpayers’ money down the drain called “defence spending,” we might ask ourselves why we have jet fighters in the first place. Fighters do not, in any real sense, defend Canada’s airspace. Rather, we’re protected by American nuclear weapons.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 04:26

jessmo112 wrote:Why spend billions to buy jets to win a war we won 30 years ago?

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contrib ... s-ago.html

The attitude of the Canadian press.
If they are going to give up sovereignty
To have us totally protect them, why even have a country?
Let's just annex them already.


The Liberal Media is the same the world over. Also, why the "doves" get us in to more conflicts than the "hawks" ever did... :roll:


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ricnunes

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 12:51

jessmo112 wrote:Why spend billions to buy jets to win a war we won 30 years ago?

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contrib ... s-ago.html

The attitude of the Canadian press.
If they are going to give up sovereignty
To have us totally protect them, why even have a country?
Let's just annex them already.


Pathetic, indeed! :roll:

"Why would someone wants to buy modern computers if 30 year old computers also worked?!"
This is more or less in the same line or rhetoric as that pathetic 'Contributor'!

That 'Contributor' also seems to be completely clueless of the recent Canadian military history! After the Cold War (which was 'Cold') we actually fought some 'HOT' wars/conflicts (you know, those kind of war/conflicts where people shoot real weapons against other people and people die!) using our CF-18 Hornets as our MAIN WEAPON such as:
- Desert Storm in 1991
- Kosovo/Operation Allied Force in 1999
- 2011 military intervention in Libya - called Operation Mobile by Canada - in 2011
- Operation Impact in Iraq against ISIS in 2014

In the next "HOT war" that Canada fights on there's a very big possibility that the current CF-18 Hornets is already outdated, hence one (and just ONE) of the reason why Canada needs a new fighter fleet! :roll:

These kind of 'Contributors' should be forced to be embedded with Canadian Forces everytime they deploy and be forced to ride on outdated vehicles (out of my mind, I remember those Iltis unarmored vehicles initially deployed in Afghanistan!). I'm sure they would stop 'Contributing' with such rubbish! :doh:


In my own opinion this 'surge' of such 'opinions' or 'Contributors' is tied to the fact that the 'Anti-F-35 crowd' probably and already reached the conclusion that the Gripen has 0% chance of winning in Canada while the Super Hornet has 0.1% chance of winning in Canada or resuming, the F-35 probably has 99.9% chance of winning in Canada and this again is why we're seeing these 'desperate' articles/opinions/contributions/whatever...
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 15:48

It’s a point worth considering: Canada has only ever used its F-18s to bomb countries that posed absolutely no threat to us.


technically Germany and Japan could never really threaten Canada either...

Moreover, our F-18s have never bombed a country into democracy, stability or prosperity. Wherever they have gone, only misery has followed.


This is why no one invites you guys to allied exercises or parties :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Cold Lake would seemingly confirm this assertion :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I could dismember the whole article piece by piece, but the truth is, its stilited, one sided, biased, ignorant, outdated, and silly while attempting to be "edgy" It very funny to me that the "if it can't kill jihadis why do we need it" has been replaced with "if it can't fight viruses or climate change why do we need it"

journalists don't help with fires, or fight climate change yet here he is. Wasting precious oxygen by existing. Or maybe not everything should be geared to this one, singular purpose.

I hope this younger generations are just "playing a role" and that they are not actually serious with this stuff. These people can barely hold their own lives together, I can't wait until we turn over our centralized planning to them. Bloviating on the internet doesn't cure disease, fight fire, or fix the planet either, but I notice they can't get off the internet.

This is very simple. if Canada wants to remain in NORAD or NATO it needs to honor its commitments (and no, not just with F-35 but with things like deployments to Ukraine) if it doesn't then it needs to formally exit these organizations (and the JSF program too if it has no intention of buying them, and Trudeau honoring his campaign promise-- did I just use honor and Trudeau in the same sentence? Oh boy--)

What they do not get to do it stay in the job while not doing any work and reaping the rewards. I would welcome either commitment or quitting instead of the half-a$$ed, luke warm, sullen position they take now.


ricnunes wrote:
In my own opinion this 'surge' of such 'opinions' or 'Contributors' is tied to the fact that the 'Anti-F-35 crowd' probably and already reached the conclusion that the Gripen has 0% chance of winning in Canada while the Super Hornet has 0.1% chance of winning in Canada or resuming, the F-35 probably has 99.9% chance of winning in Canada and this again is why we're seeing these 'desperate' articles/opinions/contributions/whatever...


I agree with this whole heartedly. I think Switzerland really put final nail in the coffin. The F-35 is undefeated in competition. The Swiss found it to be the best option at the best cost. its hard to see how Finland and Canada will somehow arrive at different conclusions despite their competitions differing in certain parameters. Moreover, as F-35s continue to proliferate the pressure to stay current in that large club increases. Its a mad world if POLAND and Neutral Switzerland outgun Canada in the air.
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ricnunes

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 20:00

XanderCrews wrote:I think Switzerland really put final nail in the coffin.


Exactly! :thumb:

XanderCrews wrote:The F-35 is undefeated in competition. The Swiss found it to be the best option at the best cost. its hard to see how Finland and Canada will somehow arrive at different conclusions despite their competitions differing in certain parameters.


I would say the Canadian competition parameters will certainly give an even and far bigger edge to the F-35 compared to the Swiss competition parameters (this because of needing to operate with other nations in alliances such as NATO or NORAD, air-to-ground roles, surveillance/ISR roles, etc...)


XanderCrews wrote:Moreover, as F-35s continue to proliferate the pressure to stay current in that large club increases. Its a mad world if POLAND and Neutral Switzerland outgun Canada in the air.


I also want to say that earlier you mentioned a great point, which was the Canadian contribution/deployments to Ukraine. Such contribution/deployments are meant to try to keep Ukraine as safe as possible from Russia which last time I checked still has one of the worlds largest and powerful Army and Air Force. The only way that Canada could effectively help allies such as Ukraine or even more importantly Eastern European NATO allies such as Poland or the Baltic States for example is by having the most advanced fighter/combat aircraft fleet possible and there's only a way for this: To adquire the F-35!
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post27 Jul 2021, 22:34

I can't imagine the outrage in the US. If, Canada didn't select the F-35. Considering they have profited from the program over many years now.......

Plus, the fact the US is Canada's largest trading partner!
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alloycowboy

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Unread post28 Jul 2021, 01:44

The Liberals have to choose the F-35 because they have already paid $613 million into the program. If they were choose another aircraft they would look even more retarded then they already are.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/2021/07/21/canada-spends-another-us71m-on-f-35-amid-calls-to-cancel-fighter-jet-purchase.html
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Unread post28 Jul 2021, 01:50

alloycowboy wrote:The Liberals have to choose the F-35 because they have already paid $613 million into the program. If they were choose another aircraft they would look even more retarded then they already are.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/2021/07/21/canada-spends-another-us71m-on-f-35-amid-calls-to-cancel-fighter-jet-purchase.html




QUOTE: While the new payment brings Canada’s total investment in the F-35 to US$613 million since 1997, the government says Canadian companies have also secured more than US$2 billion in production and maintenance contracts related to the stealth fighter.
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Unread post28 Jul 2021, 01:51

:twisted: :devil: Poised? POSED FIFYouse "...Ottawa is poised :drool: to announce later this year which fighter jet will replace Canada’s aging CF-18 fleet..." Does anyone really care anymore? Certainly it seems we'll all be underwhelmed. :doh:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post28 Jul 2021, 02:03

Canada will find another reason to delay the decision. Until Justin Trudeau finally leaves office.......... :?
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Unread post28 Jul 2021, 04:59

After Boeing forced the sale of the Bombardier C-series for one dollar to Airbus it is basically a one-horse race in the Canadian Fighter Competition. Of course, it has been a one-horse race all along, just some people were a little slow to realize this. :whistle:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fighter-jets-boeing-warning-1.5994031
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