UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Nov 2021, 14:42

Salvaging the jet – the race to recover the ditched F-35 from the seabed
21 Nov 2021 NAVY LOOKOUT

"...PUNCHING OUT
Reliable sources say that the accident occurred during take-off and the pilot was recovered very close to the carrier. The Daily Mail [ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tched.html ] reported that the pilot was “left dangling from the edge of the HMS Queen Elizabeth because the lines of his parachute became caught on edge of flight deck.” Official sources would not confirm or deny this detail but it would suggest the pilot was very fortunate. Accidents on take-off are especially dangerous but whether trapped in a sinking aircraft or having ejected, naval aviators also face the serious risk of being run over by the carrier...." [then lots of speculation about the whys & wherefores for the recovery of the aircraft including recent previous DEEP recoveries]

Source: https://www.navylookout.com/salvaging-t ... he-seabed/

DAILY MAIL excerpt:
"...The pilot, who suffered minor injuries, is understood to have been rescued by helicopter. The pilot's family was informed of the crash before military chiefs released a statement yesterday afternoon about the incident. After he ejected, rockets in his plane's seat blasted him more than 100 feet upwards before his parachute opened.

But a source told The Sun that when the pilot floated back down towards the warship, he 'came within inches' of hitting the flight deck. Instead, a cross-wind is said to have blown him sideways, where his parachute lines then became snagged on the edge of the 900 foot long runway. The quick-thinking pilot was then left dangling from the edge of the warship, around 60 feet above the water. He pulled an escape pin which released him from his harness and he then plunged into the water.

'He made the right decision,' a source said. 'We train for landing in water. The last thing you want is to get tangled in your parachute lines getting dragged along the edge of a 65,000 tonne warship.'

The US are understood to be helping with efforts to recover the plane...."
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weasel1962

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Unread post24 Nov 2021, 03:51

well, reads like the Bee crash was due to someone forgetting to remove the rain cover. Thought it only happened to cameras.
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Unread post24 Nov 2021, 08:29

The SUN tabloid reported this from unknown sources. It is hardly believable. Having one intake covered with the engine running then at full power in STO mode for take off without indications of a problem with the engine is just not possible.
FLOP GUN! £100million Royal Navy fighter jet crashed ‘because cheap plastic rain cover was left on during take-off’
23 Nov 2021 Jerome Starkey

"A £100 MILLION fighter jet crashed because a cheap plastic rain cover was left on during take-off, investigators fear. It was thought to have been sucked into the F-35 Lightning’s engine as it roared down the flight deck of the Navy’s flagship aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth. [THEN MAGICALLY] Sailors saw a red cover floating in the sea after the stealth jet splashed into the Mediterranean...." [somehow this engine cover survived going through the engine - I'll wait for more]

Source: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16829088/ ... jet-crash/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post24 Nov 2021, 09:00

spazsinbad wrote:The SUN tabloid reported this from unknown sources. It is hardly believable. Having one intake covered with the engine running then at full power in STO mode for take off without indications of a problem with the engine is just not possible.
FLOP GUN! £100million Royal Navy fighter jet crashed ‘because cheap plastic rain cover was left on during take-off’
23 Nov 2021 Jerome Starkey

"A £100 MILLION fighter jet crashed because a cheap plastic rain cover was left on during take-off, investigators fear. It was thought to have been sucked into the F-35 Lightning’s engine as it roared down the flight deck of the Navy’s flagship aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth. [THEN MAGICALLY] Sailors saw a red cover floating in the sea after the stealth jet splashed into the Mediterranean...." [somehow this engine cover survived going through the engine - I'll wait for more]

Source: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16829088/ ... jet-crash/


Well, it wouldn't be the fault of the Pilot or Aircraft then...... :|
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weasel1962

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Unread post24 Nov 2021, 10:09

spazsinbad wrote:The SUN tabloid reported this from unknown sources. It is hardly believable. Having one intake covered with the engine running then at full power in STO mode for take off without indications of a problem with the engine is just not possible.


If validated, 20 years from now, new pilots and maintainers may wonder why pre-flight checklist has *CHECK THE BL**DY COVERS ARE COMPLETELY OFF* in capital, bold with underline.
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Unread post24 Nov 2021, 11:29

On a small deck carrier or even a larger old USN carrier A-4 Skyhawks (amongst many others) could be parked/chained with important bits with RED flagged covers or whatever not accessible temporarily (perhaps in some kind of mad rush perhaps not even before the pilot manned the aircraft). However the PLANE CAPTAIN and then the PILOT are responsible (AFAIK) for the removal of said RED flagged or not items. We have seen photos of the deck crew showing an F-35B pilot in the aircraft all the pins before they are stowed. It would be a crazy day in someones HELL if this story about an engine cover not being removed is true.

My own experience of an A4G plane captain not being able to do his job properly one night turned ugly for us both (or our imaginations at the time). The A4G was chained with the nose far out over the ocean so that not even the ladder could be used for the plane captain to preflight to gain access to the cockpit AT NIGHT aboard HMAS Melbourne (the A4G was still in FLY ONE at the bow I think).

The aircraft was moved to usual start position aft of the island on the starboard side with probably aft end over the sea. Sensibly checks were done quickly as I was also preflighting the aircraft AT NIGHT with everyone using red torches to preserve night vision. AS is OFTEN THE CASE there was a time pressure to get the aircraft started to then taxi to the catapult. As I was climbing the ladder the plane captain apologised to say he did not have time to lengthen the seat harness straps. I had not been in this situation before and said that I would get in anyway to strap in. MY BIG MISTAKE. Struggling with the short straps to strap in properly I tugged on the right shoulder strap 'to free it' I thought but what I did somehow was actuate the parachute. FARK! I was shoved forward with the parachute trying to unfurl with a popping sound. The plane captain was leaning over me from the left side attempting to help. His face went WHITE! I think mine would have also but I could not see it. The ejection seat safety latch 'head knocker' was down so the seat was not going to fire. Time to get out and U/S the aircraft (unserviceable) with the safety equipment chaps having the arduous task of restoring the parachute folded properly in cramped dirty spaces onboard. Never again did I encounter short straps before strapping in - never before either - day or night.

What this incident demonstrates I hope is that the unexpected can happen via a miscommunication or misunderstanding through an incomplete preflight perhaps with both the pilot and plane captain & others thinking a vital action has been carried out but of course it has not. Anyway I really don't think an engine cover was not removed from the F-35B intake before engine start up etc. We can wait for the accident report.
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Unread post24 Nov 2021, 21:21

More BIGWIG names than most could stomach - these have been left out of a rather complicated report excerpted below.
U.K. Aircraft Carrier, Italian Navy Carrier Cross-Deck F-35Bs in Mediterranean
24 Nov 2021 Dzirhan Mahadzir

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – The United Kingdom Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) and Italian carrier ITS Cavour (CVH550) on Monday performed a cross-decking and integration exercise of their embarked F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters south east of Sicily in the Mediterranean, making Italy the second nation after the United States to operate the aircraft off the U.K. warship.

The exercise had three phases. The first phase saw two U.S. Marine Corps F-35Bs from the “Wake Island Avengers” of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 211 from Queen Elizabeth landing on the Cavour. This was followed by an Italian Navy F-35B and an Italian Air Force F-35B from Cavour landing on Queen Elizabeth. The third phase saw F-35Bs taking off from the two carriers and flying interoperability flights, along with a joint flight formation of four F-35Bs, one each from the U.S. Marines, the U.K. Royal Navy, Italian Navy and Italian Air Force. The U.K Royal Air Force’s 617 Squadron “The Dambusters” embarked on Queen Elizabeth is a composite squadron of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy personnel, though organizationally it is an RAF squadron....

...CSG 21 is now on the final leg of its seven-month deployment, which has seen the group travel over 40,000 nautical miles to the Indo-Pacific and back. Ships and aircraft from the group have operated and exercised with over 40 countries during the deployment. The group is currently dispersed and the original composition has changed....

...VFMA 211 also completed its embarkation on Queen Elizabeth, with the squadron departing today for Naval Station Rota, Spain, for the first leg of the voyage home....

...The U.K. Royal Air Force also announced today that the first F-35B from 617 landed at RAF Marham in the U.K...."

Photo: "ITS Carvour [can you believe it!? - this website has serious issues with spelling/proof reading] (CVH550) and Queen Elizabeth (R08) sailing together for the F-35 interoperability exercise in the Mediterranean. Italian Navy Photo" https://news.usni.org/wp-content/upload ... vourQE.jpg


Source: https://news.usni.org/2021/11/24/u-k-ai ... iterranean
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CAVOUR & QE Nov 2021 Med.jpg
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Unread post25 Nov 2021, 01:10

UK ‘absolutely committed’ to buying more than 48 F-35 jets

The United Kingdom has made it “absolutely clear” that it will be purchasing more than 48 F-35 jets, according to a senior defence minister.

At a recent session of the Defence Committee. focussing on the Royal Navy, it was stated by Jeremy Quin, Minister for Defence Procurement, that: “As you know, we are going to acquire 48. We have made it absolutely clear that we will be acquiring more. We have committed to have 48 in service by 2025, and we will be acquiring more. We have set that out in the IR. We will set out the exact numbers in 2025.

The 138 number is still there. That is a defined number and we are looking at keeping these aircraft carriers in operation for a very long period of time. I am not dismissing that number either. We know that we have 48 to which we are committed, and we know that we will buy more beyond that.”

How many are expected?

The former First Sea Lord said during a webcast earlier this year that the UK intends to purchase ‘around 60’ F-35B jets and then ‘maybe more up to around 80’ for four deployable squadrons.

A defence insider informed the UK Defence Journal of a live webcast given today by the First Sea Lord.

“The First Sea Lord has just said 60 F-35, then maybe more up to around 80 for 4 deployable squadrons.”...

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-abso ... f-35-jets/
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Unread post25 Nov 2021, 01:33

Well they have to buy at least 49 NOW,
Aussie fanboy
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Unread post25 Nov 2021, 03:29

optimist wrote:Well they have to buy at least 49 NOW,



They need at least 138 to support the two Air Wings plus OCU and attrition........ :?
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Unread post25 Nov 2021, 20:21

Striking back [4 page PDF of article attached]
Dec 2021 Richard Scott

"The first operational test of the UK’s reconstituted carrier strike capability has been a broad success, with its embarked F-35Bs performing in combat and working alongside US Marine Corps assets....

...Regenerating powers
Rebuilding and regenerating carrier capability has demanded that the RN and RAF put old enmities to one side. It has also hinged on the assistance provided by key allies, acknowledges Connell.

“The French have been a part of that, yes, but particularly the US Navy and the US Marine Corps [USMC]. The extent to which our partners across the Atlantic have helped us on this journey has been incredible,” he says.

Reflecting the strength of this relationship, Queen Elizabeth’s air group for CSG21 has included 10 F-35Bs from the Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 (VMFA- 211) alongside eight jets from the RAF’s 617 Sqn.

While the initial move to bring a USMC squadron on board stemmed primarily from the slow ramp-up of the UK’s own Lightning Force, it has at the same time given the RN and the RAF a golden opportunity to demonstrate what levels of interoperability and interchangeability can be achieved with their US partners.

“VMFA-211 has not just embarked as an element of tokenism,” Connell emphasises. “It’s a front line, combat-ready US Marine Corps F-35 squadron fully integrated with the strike group. And we’ve been testing the bounds of that day in, day out. Their energy and focus, and the fact that they’re a couple of years ahead of us with the aircraft, has undoubtedly helped us.”....

...“So we were also having to maintain a ready alert on the deck to counter daily probing from the Russian air force coming out to the carrier. Over 30 live intercepts of armed Russian fighter and bomber aircraft were conducted in just over two weeks.

“Responding to quick alert like that is something the Royal Navy hasn’t done with aircraft carriers for a generation. So that’s meant understanding the readiness state that you have to maintain so you can get the jets off at sufficient time to ensure you can intercept an incoming aircraft at appropriate range.”...

...Units and air wings undertook both day and night flying; a number of anti-submarine/anti-surface warfare activities were completed; and flight operations were conducted from Queen Elizabeth concurrent with replenishment at sea operations.

“We were flying fixed-wing almost continuously through the 24-hour period, which is something the US doesn’t do – they surge for 15-hour, maybe 18- hour periods, whereas we were able to keep flying over 24 hours, fixed and rotary-wing,” says Moorhouse. “It really allowed us to show the unique flexibility and agility of Queen Elizabeth-class aviation.

“For example, flying fixed-wing while replenishing is really quite straightforward for us once you’ve got everyone trained and good to go. And we don’t need much wind [over the deck] to launch the jets, even at full weights in hot conditions.

“We are clearly different to an American CVN [nuclear-powered carrier],” he adds. “We don’t have catapults and arrestor gear, we’re not in the same scale in terms of air wing size, and the F-35B does not have the same legs.

“But [Queen Elizabeth] offers something completely different in its agility to get aircraft up and off. A CVN is incredibly impressive, but it is operated very differently and simply does not have the same flexibility.”...

...“With the numbers that we have, and if you can tailor your flying rates sensibly, you can broadly speaking have 75% of the aircraft available in any one day, and the rest going through routine maintenance. So that mass gives you the flexibility, and then it’s just ensuring you have that regular pattern of stores delivery.”...

Source: Flight International December 2021
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F-35Bs CSG21 Flight International Dec 2021 pp4.pdf
(592.63 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
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zerion

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Unread post29 Nov 2021, 19:24

Dramatic Footage Supposedly Of The Moment An F-35 Crashed Off A British Carrier Emerges
The footage purportedly shows the pilot ejecting as the fighter jet nosedives off the end of the ski-jump takeoff ramp...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... er-emerges


Source from Twitter
https://twitter.com/sebh1981/status/146 ... er-emerges
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Unread post29 Nov 2021, 19:53

I know some of you know that about a week ago an F-35 was lost in the Mediterranean.
New details are up on
Warzone. Apparently the culprit was a engine cover.
More details are emerging.
Some poor crew chief and his entire crew will likely be decertified. Are class A mishaps the same for Britain?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... er-emerges
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Unread post29 Nov 2021, 19:56

The brief video appears to have been captured using a mobile phone from accident footage that was being played back on a computer. A label at the top of the monitor reading Visual Surveillance System suggests this was part of the raw video from the carrier’s own closed-circuit TV system, which would be used in any accident investigation, as well as to monitor regular flight-deck activity. The footage shows the pilot ejecting just as the jet topples over the end of the ‘ski jump’ takeoff ramp, clearly short of power. The pilot’s parachute seems to become snagged on the bow of the carrier, another feature of previous unconfirmed reports.

More.
Who would think something as flimsy as an engine cover could gum up the works.
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Unread post29 Nov 2021, 23:41

:applause: Thanks 'zerion' - the video now cropped while one may see probably bits from ejection seat plopping on the centre-line of the ski jump. I guess/HOPE the pilot waited for QE to stop before releasing himself from the 'hung up'? chute?

UK F-35B Pilot Ejects Off QE Ski Jump Rescued OK 17 Nov 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-txlqNe08jA

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