UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

madrat

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3072
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post25 Jun 2021, 00:52

Kind of hard to integrate an MBDA weapon they themselves cannot provide for said integration.
Offline
User avatar

doge

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 799
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 16:07

Unread post25 Jun 2021, 20:02

PDF about meteors for F-35. 8)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... der-v3.pdf
Environmental Data Gathering success for Meteor
Pictured: An Environmental Data Gathering (EDG) missile pictured at MBDA's facility in Stevenage ahead of delivery (Picture submitted by MBDA. MBDA copyright)
desider July 2020 News
The Weapon Operating Centre’s (WOC) air-to-air Missiles delivery team has successfully delivered the first of three Environmental Data Gathering (EDG) rounds safely and on time amid restrictions imposed by COVID-19.
While manufacturing and testing took place, MBDA needed to temporarily close its Environmental Engineering & Facilities centre due to COVID-19 restrictions. However, after quickly implementing safe working practices, providing PPE and social distancing measures, MBDA ensured people on-site were able to continue work in a safe environment.

The purpose of the trials are to test the integration of the Meteor air-to-air missile system onto the F-35B Lightning aircraft and gather environmental data to ensure the current Meteor design meets the safety and environmental constraints of the aircraft’s weapon system.
The EDG trials collected data on how the missile responded to the vibration, acceleration and temperature of different environments. Meeting requirements for the first EDG trials has marked a step to bringing an innovative and long-range capability that will further enhance the UK’s F-35B fleet.

Marcus Toms, WOC’s quality manager, said: “Beyond visual range air-to-air missile, better known as Meteor, is the most advanced missile of its kind in the world and is a joint venture between six nations and MBDA. “I have worked on Meteor for over 10 years, embedded in industry, and this is the fifth integration round that I have accepted, bringing Meteor into service on to now four different aircraft for the UK and partner nations.

”Meteor is currently used on Typhoon for the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain and is also integrated onto the Gripen aircraft for the Swedish air force, as well as the French Rafale aircraft.
The missile will be integrated onto F-35B aircraft, which will play a critical role in the UK’s Carrier Enabled Power Projection, enabling forces to deploy military capabilities from anywhere in the world. Meteor will give the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy a distinct air supremacy with the F-35B, bringing together stealth technology and beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile capability.

It will equip F-35Bs with all-weather combat capability to engage in a wide variety of targets, from agile fast jets to small unmanned aerial vehicles and cruise missiles.
Colin Lapsley, MBDA’s head of the Meteor programme, said: “My thanks to our teams who, through their commitment and team spirit, have successfully delivered this important Meteor test asset for F-35B Lightning. It is an excellent example of how, together, we are able to adapt to continue to deliver and meet military needs under challenging conditions like we find now with COVID-19.”
Offline
User avatar

doge

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 799
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 16:07

Unread post25 Jun 2021, 20:04

It's as if the F-35B is doing the work of the AEW...! :shock: (Oh my God. :doh: )
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... -interest/
UK’s newest carrier ― with Marine Corps F-35s onboard ― joins Islamic State fight, stirs Russian interest
Menelaos Hadjicostis 2021/06/21
Britain’s newest aircraft carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth — with 10 Marine Corps F-35s onboard — is helping to take on the “lion’s share” of operations against the Islamic State group in Iraq, U.K. naval commanders said. It has also piqued the interest of Russian warplanes, who try to keep tabs on those cutting-edge F-35 jet in a “cat-and-mouse” game with British and U.S. pilots.
Speaking aboard the 65,000-ton carrier on its first-ever deployment, Commodore Steve Moorhouse said the UK is carrying out most of the missions to wipe out the remnants of the Islamic State in Iraq as the U.S. focuses on its withdrawal from Afghanistan.

“At the moment, we’re taking on the lion’s share of that operation over Iraq, which is a fantastic, say, feather in our cap. But an achievement that ‘A’, we’re trusted and ‘B’, that we’re able to do that,” Moorhouse told reporters Sunday.
It’s the first time that a UK aircraft carrier is supporting live military operations on the ground in more than two decades, projecting British military power on a global scale. Moorhouse said the carrier offers the UK flexibility in how to conduct military operations abroad and “keeps those that wish to cause us harm ... on their toes.”

He said the eastern Mediterranean has become more “congested and contested” over the past decade in light of the heavier Russian military presence in Syria, which is resulting in regular encounters with Russian ships and warplanes.
“We’re rubbing up against Russian activity, not in a you know, in a dangerous or aggressive manner, but you’ve just got other people out here playing in what is a fixed piece of water and airspace,” said Moorhouse, adding that a Russian warship has come within 16 miles of the carrier.

The commodore insisted that Russian, British and U.S. pilots have a “healthy respect for one another” and their conduct has been “absolutely professional” since the aircraft carrier started anti-IS operations on June 18.
“But there is a reality when you buy yourself a fifth-generation aircraft carrier and you take it around the world ... people are interested in it,” he added.
Capt. James Blackmore, who commands the eight British F-35 jets and the 10 helicopters aboard the carrier, said UK and Russian pilots have come within “visual distance” of each other.
“It’s that cat-and-mouse posturing, it’s what we expect in this region of world. And as you can imagine, it’s the first time for F-35s into the eastern Mediterranean,” said Blackmore. “So, of course Russia wants to look at what they’re like, they want to look at what our carriers are like.”

The state-of-the art F-35, armed with air-to-air missiles and laser-guided bombs, is being used over Iraq to look for other aircraft or unmanned drones, support troops on the ground as well as to carry out surveillance with its sophisticated sensor and radar systems.
“It’s a fifth-generation aircraft with a hugely, hugely capable radar and sensor suite, and that’s what it brings. So it’s the eyes and ears that it’s offering out there,” said Moorhouse.

The HMS Queen Elizabeth and its support ships, which include the U.S. destroyer The Sullivans, will remain in the eastern Mediterranean for two to three weeks before moving through the Suez Canal to continue with a 7 1/2 -month deployment to India, South Korea and Japan.
The carrier also has 10 U.S. F-35 jets from the Marine Corps’ Fighter Attack Squadron 211 aboard that carry out operations under British command.
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2918
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post27 Jun 2021, 06:24

An article in the past few months reported on the USAF F-35 deployment to the middle east. Of particular note, it described types of munitions deployed and quantity. What caught my eye was thousands of 25mm rounds were apparently expended... so the gun works, and they apparently liked to use it.

I will be interested to see if any photos or stories appear showing USMC Bees lugging the gunpod around on this deployment, and if the flying leathernecks expend much 25mm. Also whether or not they lend some gunpods to the Brits, as I recall that the Brits are not buying any guns for their Bees.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline

timmymagic

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:48

Unread post28 Jun 2021, 09:35

ricnunes wrote:
das__kardinal wrote:Hmmm, indeed a quick trip to Wikipedia tells me only SPEAR 3 will be integrated on British F-35s, but SPEAR 3 being based on Brimstone tech, so it kinda fits.


SPEAR 3 is only based (a follow up development) on the Brimstone internally. Externally they seem to be completely different. For instance the Brimstone is similar (and somehow based on) the AGM-114 Hellfire missile while the SPEAR 3 is a similar weapon to the GBU-53 SDBII (Stormbreaker).
What I mean with this is that and since the F-35 is already designed to employ SDBs it will be far easier (and useful) to integrate the SPEAR 3 than the Brimstone and since SPEAR 3 is much better (than Brimstone), IMO it doesn't make muich sense to integrate the Brimstone on the F-35.


Spear re-uses the MMW and SAL from Brimstone, but also incorporates other modes. Apart from that little similarity, one is rocket powered the other turbojet, larger warhead on Spear as well. The only shared aspect between Hellfire and Brimstone (get the relationship?) is the exterior shape, which was chosen to make integration easier, no parts are shared. Spear is a little like SDBII, but it has a warhead half the size with at least double the range. Another variant of Spear is on the way called SpearGlide. This is unpowered with a larger warhead, it will be a direct equivalent to SDBII. Brimstone integration was dropped from F-35 about 10 years ago (along with Storm Shadow, a far greater loss but also understandable). One of the main reasons is that Brimstone ignites immediately after release, which meant that internal carry on F-35 a new release mode would need to be developed and trialled or it would be a weapon that could only be used externally. Given the similarity (but not cost) in the missiles seeker abilities and target sets it was decided that it wasn't worth the candle.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26207
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post30 Jun 2021, 03:19

Again I'm not sure about the claims [me misreading?] for the F-35B development in / for the UK in this SHARKEY article:
(thank goodness it seems he has stopped BASHING the F-35B and perhaps SRVLs - I guess ONLY TIME WILL TELL EH. :roll: )
The Strategic Air Defence of Our Interests
01 Jun 2021 'Sharkey' Ward

"...since 1979, an inflation linked sum of just £20 billion has been invested in carrier-borne aircraft. But it was the latter that secured our strategic national interests and deterred those that would harm us in all the aforesaid crises. Argentina would never have invaded the Falklands in 1982 if UK had maintained its conventional Strike Carrier Force.

The Conduct and Cost of operating the Typhoon alongside the F-35B – as obliquely referred to within Reference B.
It is understood that our F-35’s state-of-the-art communications system cannot link up with older planes, including the Typhoon and that an attempt to modify the F-35 to resolve this issue is being considered but at considerable cost and delays [to buying more F-35Bs?] of up to five years. [we are aware of ongoing hardware evolution which may / may not apply to the UK?]

Such possible modification needs to be validated and justified in terms of value for money. Questions arising include:
When, if ever, would the non-stealth Typhoon be operating in company with the carrier-borne F-35B in defence of our overseas trade routes, possessions and energy supplies?

Is it not illogical to suggest that the F-35B stealth fighter should conduct composite missions with the non-stealth Typhoon, thereby effectively negating the F-35B stealth qualities?

In the light of a. and b. above, is it not irresponsible to suggest that the F-35B program should suffer major delays and costs in order to be modified to communicate covertly with the Typhoon?

Surely, we as an Island Nation should concentrate our limited defence funds on the strategic capability of the F-35B when embarked in carriers and not prejudice the same with delays [why is the F-35B 'delayed' in UK?] and unjustified expenditure on communication with a land-based, noncarrier-capable, non-stealth, limited utility, tactical fighter....

...Unjustifiable diversion of funding away from the F-35B and the Fleet Weapon System would cause irreparable harm to Britain’s Strategic Military and Political Power Projection capability, to confidence placed in us by our Allies and to the global protection and, if necessary, defence of our Lifeblood that may be vital after Brexit. It is reassuring that Reference B indicates a commitment to increase the size of the F-35B fleet beyond 48 units, catering for more realistic, larger embarked air groups...."

Source: https://hermajestystopgun.com/the-strat ... interests/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

noth

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 173
  • Joined: 17 Sep 2005, 14:16

Unread post30 Jun 2021, 21:31

When is DT-3 going to be done on HMS Prince of Wales? The lads on Big Lizzie could do with SRVL being proven to be operational and safe when operating in the tropics!
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26207
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post30 Jun 2021, 21:42

PROBABLY REGARDLESS when SRVL is proven safe the pilots aboard QE will have to practice ashore before practicing onboard to deck qualify. I'll wager the QE pilots won't use SRVL until after returning to UK. Remember 'crawl, walk, run'?
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

noth

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 173
  • Joined: 17 Sep 2005, 14:16

Unread post30 Jun 2021, 21:56

spazsinbad wrote:PROBABLY REGARDLESS when SRVL is proven safe the pilots aboard QE will have to practice ashore before practicing onboard to deck qualify. I'll wager the QE pilots won't use SRVL until after returning to UK. Remember 'crawl, walk, run'?


Maybe they've been practising at RAF Marham ever since the DT-1 & -2 trials in 2018? I wouldn't be waiting around when you can do it on land...
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26207
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post30 Jun 2021, 22:18

Maybe they can practice in QE portable sims. You will have to ask them. I've given my opinion. Conventional Deck Landing qualification is time critical with necessary landings. What is the time interval before a requalification? I have no idea.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26207
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post05 Jul 2021, 18:45

A photo essay with only a few phots of good 'F-35Bs aboard QE shots' in the mix but hey some are good such as this one:

https://www.navylookout.com/wp-content/ ... ission.jpg

Mediterranean interlude – the Carrier Strike Group on its defence diplomacy mission 05 Jul 2021 NAVY LOOKOUT
https://www.navylookout.com/mediterrane ... y-mission/
Attachments
Mediterannean-Interlude-Carrier-Strike-Group-on-defence-diplomacy-mission.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

zhangmdev

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 314
  • Joined: 01 May 2017, 09:07

Unread post07 Jul 2021, 09:34

HMS Queen Elizabeth sails through the Suez Canal

HMS Prince of Wales visiting Gibraltar

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/hm ... uez-canal/

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-pri ... gibraltar/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26207
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post08 Jul 2021, 03:45

DID YOU KNOW THERE IS A NEW F-35 AFLOAT? THE LIGHTING TOO (I'm Kidding About the TOO-to-2-II) mebbe a light TuTu?
HMS Queen Elizabeth Enters Middle East After Suez Canal Transit; Carrier Eisenhower Now in Atlantic
07 Jul 2021 Sam LaGrone [GROAN][/size] [you would think this website is professional]

"British aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) and its escorts are now operating in the Red Sea after transiting the Suez Canal on Tuesday, according to U.K. officials. The carrier passed through the canal as part of the 28-week maiden deployment of the carrier with an air wing made up of both Royal Air Force and U.S. Marine F-35B Lighting II Joint Strike Fighters, the strike group announced...."

Photo: "HMS Queen Elizabeth (R06) transiting the Suez Canal on July 6, 2021. Royal Navy Photo" https://news.usni.org/wp-content/upload ... AsZdE.jpeg


Source: https://news.usni.org/2021/07/07/hms-qu ... n-atlantic
Attachments
E5tkSkfWQAAsZdE.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

noth

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 173
  • Joined: 17 Sep 2005, 14:16

Unread post14 Jul 2021, 19:13

Big Lizzie along with USS Iwo Jima and USS Ronald Reagan in the Golf of Aden:

Image

Image

Image
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26207
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post18 Jul 2021, 16:32

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-c ... ean-region OLD CSG 21 More photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWddU8k
"“Carrier Strike Group 21 - The UK Carrier Strike Group 2021, led by HMS Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carrier, departing the UK. 04 Oct 2020 Photo Royal Navy” https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/513 ... 17_o_d.jpg (3Mb)
Attachments
CSG21jul2021.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: optimist, pron and 23 guests