F-35 Program Docs

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post05 May 2021, 08:48

645 (F-35's) + 186 (F-22's) = 831 Stealth Fighters :cheers:
Offline

magitsu

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 833
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2015, 22:12

Unread post05 May 2021, 12:50

hornetfinn wrote:I just noticed that an average sortie duration for all F-35 sorties of all F-35 models in history have been about 1.75 hours or 1 hour and 44 minutes. I think this is very long average sortie duration. For example this document:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA331910.pdf

says that average sortie duration for F-15C/Ds was about 1.5 hours worldwide in 1990s. F-16C/Ds were about 1.35 hours during the same period. F-15E in 1990s was very similar to all F-35 sorties in history. Given that early sortie durations were likely rather short lowering the average sortie duration, I think this is extremely impressive fact. IMO, this definitely further supports the fact that F-35 has extremely impressive range/endurance compared to any 4th gen fighter jet.

Do you have a reference for the F-35 avg sortie?

I found another source which has F/A-18A-D avg sortie durations.
Based on historical flight hour data, average sortie duration is 1.3 hours for the FA-18A/C (pg 9)

Based on historical flight hour data, average sortie duration is 1.3 hours for the FA-18D (pg 14)

https://www.marines.mil/portals/1/Publi ... CH%201.pdf

Here's also another tidbit about sorties from the youtuber fighter jock CW Lemoine. Not about averages, but his Iraq F-16 sortie experience.
CW Lemoine, a part-time reserve pilot, took three years and a tour in Iraq to clear 1,000 hours in an F-16, "and that was just flying my butt off. Iraq alone was like 60, 70 hours in two months. The average sortie is anywhere from four to eight hours."

During those long sorties, Lemoine said he had to get refueled in flight just about every hour.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fewer-t ... ?r=US&IR=T
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3563
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post05 May 2021, 13:34

magitsu wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:I just noticed that an average sortie duration for all F-35 sorties of all F-35 models in history have been about 1.75 hours or 1 hour and 44 minutes. I think this is very long average sortie duration. For example this document:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA331910.pdf

says that average sortie duration for F-15C/Ds was about 1.5 hours worldwide in 1990s. F-16C/Ds were about 1.35 hours during the same period. F-15E in 1990s was very similar to all F-35 sorties in history. Given that early sortie durations were likely rather short lowering the average sortie duration, I think this is extremely impressive fact. IMO, this definitely further supports the fact that F-35 has extremely impressive range/endurance compared to any 4th gen fighter jet.

Do you have a reference for the F-35 avg sortie?


It was that latest "Fast Facts" document posted by spazs. Total flight hours is now about 385,000 and total sortie count 221,892. I just divided the flight hour number by sortie count.
Offline
User avatar

doge

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 731
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 16:07

Unread post06 May 2021, 19:46

spazsinbad wrote:LM F-35 Fast Facts 04 May 2021 (3.5Mb) attached below: https://www.f35.com/content/dam/lockhee ... 5_2021.pdf

F-35 RELIABILITY and MAINTAINABILITY.jpg

MAINTENANCE MAN HOUR PER FLIGHT HOUR 4.7 !? :shock: :doh: It seems to me that time is pretty good. 8)

hornetfinn wrote:I just noticed that an average sortie duration for all F-35 sorties of all F-35 models in history have been about 1.75 hours or 1 hour and 44 minutes. I think this is very long average sortie duration. For example this document:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA331910.pdf

says that average sortie duration for F-15C/Ds was about 1.5 hours worldwide in 1990s. F-16C/Ds were about 1.35 hours during the same period. F-15E in 1990s was very similar to all F-35 sorties in history. Given that early sortie durations were likely rather short lowering the average sortie duration, I think this is extremely impressive fact. IMO, this definitely further supports the fact that F-35 has extremely impressive range/endurance compared to any 4th gen fighter jet.

Great find by hornetfinn ! :applause:
Sortie time comparable to F-15E...!! :shock: Wow! Comparing the F-15E with the F-15C and F-16C times, it is clear that the F-15E uses EFT and CFT. 8)
Offline

block4

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 04 May 2021, 08:26

Unread post06 Jun 2021, 21:18

I just noticed that an average sortie duration for all F-35 sorties of all F-35 models in history have been about 1.75 hours ... this definitely further supports the fact that F-35 has extremely impressive range/endurance


That and probably some healthy in-flight refueling too ?
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post07 Jun 2021, 00:23

They try to keep the true data from us....So, they can continue to make unsubstantiated claims against the F-35.
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3563
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post07 Jun 2021, 07:18

block4 wrote:
I just noticed that an average sortie duration for all F-35 sorties of all F-35 models in history have been about 1.75 hours ... this definitely further supports the fact that F-35 has extremely impressive range/endurance


That and probably some healthy in-flight refueling too ?


Probably that too, but I don't think it's any different with F-15C/D/E and F-16 in mid-1990s compared to F-35s now. I doubt that F-35s have done any more in-flight refueling than F-15s and F-16s did in 1990s.
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2785
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post10 Jun 2021, 03:30

hornetfinn wrote:That and probably some healthy in-flight refueling too ?


Probably that too, but I don't think it's any different with F-15C/D/E and F-16 in mid-1990s compared to F-35s now. I doubt that F-35s have done any more in-flight refueling than F-15s and F-16s did in 1990s.[/quote]

Hmmm, while I agree with your last statement, it may be that the F-35 has done less in-flight refueling than Eagles / Vipers in the 90's, to the extent that F-35 training may require less AAR / IFR than those earlier aircraft. I recall the statement by a USAF pilot stating how he could perform several different training elements in his Lighting without need of a tanker, whereas in his old F-15C, he had to hit a tanker once or twice during that training hop. (It is unclear in my memory if that pilot's Eagle was a one, two, or three bagger. Still, the point remains -- the F-35 requires less IFR than other aircraft.)
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline
User avatar

playloud

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 299
  • Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 04:07

Unread post11 Jun 2021, 01:54

steve2267 wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:Probably that too, but I don't think it's any different with F-15C/D/E and F-16 in mid-1990s compared to F-35s now. I doubt that F-35s have done any more in-flight refueling than F-15s and F-16s did in 1990s.


Hmmm, while I agree with your last statement, it may be that the F-35 has done less in-flight refueling than Eagles / Vipers in the 90's, to the extent that F-35 training may require less AAR / IFR than those earlier aircraft. I recall the statement by a USAF pilot stating how he could perform several different training elements in his Lighting without need of a tanker, whereas in his old F-15C, he had to hit a tanker once or twice during that training hop. (It is unclear in my memory if that pilot's Eagle was a one, two, or three bagger. Still, the point remains -- the F-35 requires less IFR than other aircraft.)

F-15C w/ 2 bags.

https://youtu.be/QTgDTC8_PM0?t=946
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25895
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 Jun 2021, 02:14

Same RANGE excerpt ONLY (with intro for pilots): F-35A Range Quote Pilots Berke Gunn + Muradian 10 Nov 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-rlGDcU9A

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

playloud

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 299
  • Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 04:07

Unread post11 Jun 2021, 19:33

spazsinbad wrote:Same RANGE excerpt ONLY (with intro for pilots): F-35A Range Quote Pilots Berke Gunn + Muradian 10 Nov 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-rlGDcU9A

Man, I KNEW there was a video with just the range quote, but I couldn't find it in the search anymore. I'm bookmarking it.
Previous

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: herciv, wil59 and 31 guests