The Turkey problem

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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 May 2021, 05:08

Despite F-35 Deal Cancellation, U.S. Accounted for 40% of Turkey’s Defence Exports in 2021

Despite throwing Turkey out of the F-35 program and imposing sanctions on top Turkish defence industry officials, the U.S. accounted for nearly 40% of Turkey’s defense exports during the first four months of 2021.

Turkey's defense and aerospace industry generated $950 million in exports in the first four months of this year, with the United States taking the lead among importing countries.

The U.S. imported over $386 million worth of defense-related equipment during the period, up 56% from a year earlier, according to Trade Ministry and Turkish Exporters' Assembly (TIM) data compiled by Anadolu Agency (AA), Daily Sabah reported.

It was followed by Azerbaijan with exports worth $117.3 million, up 1,234%, and the UAE with $90.3 million. Sector exports jumped 47.7% from the same period in 2020.

While Turkey has been removed from the F-35 program, the U.S. continues to import parts manufactured in turkey for the F-35. It has sought time till mid-2022 to find alternative sources of supply.

In addition to denying Turkey F-35 jets earmarked for it, the U.S. has imposed sanctions on top officials of the defence industries presidency (SSB) which prevents their travel to the U.S. a freeze on assets held in the U.S. and prohibits U.S. financial institutions from dealing with the SSB.

Turkey has been steadfast in its stand of not backing out of a deal to buy S-400 systems from Russia, and has preferred to let go of the F-35 deal instead.

The U.S. on its part has restricted its actions against Turkey to the F-35 and has continued to sell other systems and equipment. Late last year it approved the sale of GE engine for Turkey's Milgem frigates among others.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/29550 ... JtTNP-pWhM
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Corsair1963

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Unread post17 May 2021, 22:58

Flash F-35 and S-400 explanation from Turkey!
Wednesday, May 12, 2021 - 11:55 | Last Updated: 12 05 2021 - 12:00

Presidential Spokesperson İbrahim Kalın made important statements on many topics, from relations with the United States to claims that Turkey would withdraw troops from Libya. Kalin said, "We are renewing our F-35 offer to the US. We can negotiate the S-400 issue. We are preparing for a meeting with Biden at the NATO Summit." said.


QUOTE:

WE ARE RENEWING OUR OFFER

(S-400 and F-35 issue) Turkey's unilateral removal from the F-35 program is against the agreement and agreements. We expect a step back from here. Biden also knows the historical process of the S-400 issue. We do not believe that this decision has a dimension that would endanger NATO's security system or the interests of third countries. The arguments presented by the Americans have not convinced us. The reasons they put forward that these pose a security risk against F-35s are not satisfactory for us. We are renewing this offer. If we are two allies and strategic partners, we can resolve it through negotiation. If the conditions are right, we can get Patriots alongside the S-400s. Our expectation is that in S-400, CAATSA and F-35, unfair and contrary decisions will be reversed.

turkiye-den-flas-f-35-ve-s-400-aciklamasi--5049418.Jpeg



https://www.gazetevatan.com/turkiye-den ... FVT6vwOYgc
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Corsair1963

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Unread post19 May 2021, 03:34

US greenlights Turkey-made attack helicopter sale to Philippines
by DAILY SABAH
ISTANBUL Defense
May 18, 2021 3:40 pm GMT+3



The United States has approved export licenses to Turkey for the sale of its homegrown T129 Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopter (ATAK), powered by an American engine, to the Philippines, an official from the manufacturing company said Monday.

Washington had issued the required paperwork regarding the sale of an initially designated number of six attack helicopters, Serdar Demir, marketing and communications director of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), said.

Philippine Defense Minister Delfin Lorenzana announced back on Dec. 7, 2018, that his country will acquire the T129 helicopters and that six units would be purchased initially. Subsequently, a memorandum of understanding (MoU) was signed between Turkey and the Philippines for the sale of the choppers, which until now had not been realized due to the export license barrier.

A joint venture by American firm Honeywell and the British company Rolls-Royce produces the engines powering the T129 helicopters, namely the LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines, which are mounted in pairs on each helicopter. Foreign companies are obligated to obtain export permits for U.S. military-grade commercial sales.

Meanwhile, according to a Turkish official, speaking on condition of anonymity to the Middle East Eye (MEE), the engine export license did not need Congressional authorization because it was below the amount required by law for congressional oversight that covers major defense sales of $25 million or higher with NATO allies.

"The license was directly issued by the State Department," the official was cited as saying.

“We also received export licenses for the engines needed last year for T129 helicopters to be used by Turkish authorities.”

The TAI also has a $1.5 billion (TL 12.54 billion) contract with Pakistan that includes the sale of 30 T129 helicopters that are currently awaiting U.S. permission to export. The TAI has so far delivered a total of 61 T129 ATAK helicopters to the Turkish Land Forces Command, the Gendarmerie General Command and the General Directorate of Security.

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/def ... hilippines
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blindpilot

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Unread post19 May 2021, 05:53

Corsair1963 wrote:US greenlights Turkey-made attack helicopter sale to Philippines
....
The United States has approved export licenses to Turkey for the sale of its homegrown T129 Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopter (ATAK), powered by an American engine, to the Philippines, an official from the manufacturing company said Monday.
....

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/def ... hilippines

Yeah, I have no doubt they can resell 1980's LHTEC products anytime they want.

This is news, why?
BP
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Corsair1963

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Unread post19 May 2021, 06:19

blindpilot wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:US greenlights Turkey-made attack helicopter sale to Philippines
....
The United States has approved export licenses to Turkey for the sale of its homegrown T129 Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopter (ATAK), powered by an American engine, to the Philippines, an official from the manufacturing company said Monday.
....

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/def ... hilippines

Yeah, I have no doubt they can resell 1980's LHTEC products anytime they want.

This is news, why?
BP


News because clearly the US and Turkey are working more and more together.

As a matter of fact just a short-time ago the US would have blocked such a sale. Even a minor one like this.....
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madrat

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Unread post19 May 2021, 13:22

Yay, Turkey sold the Philippines their junk light helicopter. I guess the legend of the Mongoose lives on. /headslap
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Corsair1963

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Unread post01 Jun 2021, 05:41

Turkey to Send Russian Missile Experts Home in Signal to Biden

By
Selcan Hacaoglu

‎May‎ ‎31‎, ‎2021‎ ‎11‎:‎27‎ ‎AM

Turkey said it will send home Russian missile experts overseeing the S-400 air defense technology that has strained ties with the United States, addressing one of Washington’s concerns with the system while ruling out scrapping it altogether.


The remarks, which come ahead of a planned meeting between Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and President Joe Biden on the sidelines of a NATO summit in Brussels mid-June, signal Ankara’s readiness to compromise on one element of U.S. concerns. Washington has said Turkey should end the presence of Russian personnel in the country to help with training and assembly of the missiles.



But Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, who said the system would be under Turkish control when the experts left, reiterated Ankara would not budge on Washington’s broader demand to get rid of the missiles in order for related U.S. sanctions to be lifted.



“The S-400s will be under our 100% control. We’ve sent many technicians for training. The Russian military experts won’t stay in Turkey,” Cavusoglu said on a visit to Greece, state-run TRT television reported Monday. But he rejected U.S. calls on Turkey not to activate the missiles. “It is not possible to accept calls from another country to “not use” them,” he said.


Cavusoglu said he would meet U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken either in Washington or Ankara before the leaders’ meeting.

Biden and the U.S. Congress have both taken a hard line on Turkey, in part over its acquisition of the Russian S-400 missiles, which Washington says could gather intelligence on Western military capabilities including Lockheed Martin Corp.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... l-to-biden
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hornetfinn

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Unread post01 Jun 2021, 09:32

I don't think that will help much in getting Turkey back to F-35 program. I really don't see any other way than getting rid of Turkish S-400s. They will likely still need Russian assistance in supporting, maintaining and upgrading their S-400s at some point even if they don't need that now. That includes sending S-400 system components to Russia, which would definitely be seen as a security threat. I
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Fox1

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Unread post06 Jun 2021, 12:32

Offer to trade them some Patriot systems in exchange for the S-400 and its components. I don't think it would be hard to sell them the idea that having both the F-35 and Patriot would give them far superior capability to just having the S-400 alone. It would be quite a coup to have our very own S-400 adversary battalion/s set up somewhere in the Nevada desert to train against and all of the equipment in our possession for our technicians to analyze in great detail. It would be the "Constant Peg" version of advanced enemy SAM systems. Otherwise, I'd tell Turkey to go pound sand.
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madrat

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Unread post06 Jun 2021, 17:04

If Turkey was a true ally of NATO then it happens regardless. But they are a lukewarm member. I'd go so far as to say a hostile partner, with the way they treat Greece and commingled with China. Terrible ally.
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wrightwing

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Unread post06 Jun 2021, 18:05

Fox1 wrote:Offer to trade them some Patriot systems in exchange for the S-400 and its components. I don't think it would be hard to sell them the idea that having both the F-35 and Patriot would give them far superior capability to just having the S-400 alone. It would be quite a coup to have our very own S-400 adversary battalion/s set up somewhere in the Nevada desert to train against and all of the equipment in our possession for our technicians to analyze in great detail. It would be the "Constant Peg" version of advanced enemy SAM systems. Otherwise, I'd tell Turkey to go pound sand.

Heck, throw in THAAD and Patriot to hand over the S-400s and kick all Russian spheres of influence out.
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durahawk

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Unread post06 Jun 2021, 21:40

Fox1 wrote:Offer to trade them some Patriot systems in exchange for the S-400 and its components. I don't think it would be hard to sell them the idea that having both the F-35 and Patriot would give them far superior capability to just having the S-400 alone. It would be quite a coup to have our very own S-400 adversary battalion/s set up somewhere in the Nevada desert to train against and all of the equipment in our possession for our technicians to analyze in great detail. It would be the "Constant Peg" version of advanced enemy SAM systems. Otherwise, I'd tell Turkey to go pound sand.


Yeah that would never happen. I also doubt the Russians sold Turkey the same capabilities that Russian forces use because that would be stupid. The other thing about exploitation is that if you don't keep it secret the adversary will just change their systems.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Jun 2021, 00:26

Point here is the US and Turkey are working very much on a compromise........and my guess is they will eventually find one. Which, is what I said from the start.
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blindpilot

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Unread post07 Jun 2021, 03:15

Corsair1963 wrote:Point here is the US and Turkey are working very much on a compromise........


I know that's your point. you assert it frequently, as if it is a fait accompli, self evident fact not to be argued. Yeah no argument needed, but the assertion is simply false.

My point is ... Where is any evidence of such feverish "working very much." There is none!
so your assertion is empty rhetoric.

What a I see via first hand on the ground reports from inside Turkey is a divorce that is unavoidable, not because they bought some Russian equipment, but because Turkey is being sucked down a whirlpool of "Islamic Ottoman Rebirth," that at this point is inescapable, even if many in Turkey might want it. People are going through a dance of politeness, pretending the obvious isn't in the room.

Some in Turkey might be wanting to work on some compromise framework. (although I don't see any evidence of that either, most are working on plans to move their families to Western Europe.)

But one thing is for sure. The US is not even pretending to look for a compromise.

It is harsh plain ultimatum, a ..
" don't call us ... you know what you did ... Have a nice day ... so where are those Romanian, Bulgarian, Greek, Ukraine and Georgian ambassadors again? We need to "work very much" to compromise with them ... what was their last offer? Tell Turkey to stop wasting my time ..."

Where is this "working very much"?
Is it businessmen selling 1980's (40+ year old, 60+ year designs) equipment? Really? No I don't think so.

MHO
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Jun 2021, 03:27

blindpilot wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Point here is the US and Turkey are working very much on a compromise........


I know that's your point. you assert it frequently, as if it is a fait accompli, self evident fact not to be argued. Yeah no argument needed, but the assertion is simply false.

My point is ... Where is any evidence of such feverish "working very much." There is none!
so your assertion is empty rhetoric.

What a I see via first hand on the ground reports from inside Turkey is a divorce that is unavoidable, not because they bought some Russian equipment, but because Turkey is being sucked down a whirlpool of "Islamic Ottoman Rebirth," that at this point is inescapable, even if many in Turkey might want it. People are going through a dance of politeness, pretending the obvious isn't in the room.

Some in Turkey might be wanting to work on some compromise framework. (although I don't see any evidence of that either, most are working on plans to move their families to Western Europe.)

But one thing is for sure. The US is not even pretending to look for a compromise.

It is harsh plain ultimatum, a ..
" don't call us ... you know what you did ... Have a nice day ... so where are those Romanian, Bulgarian, Greek, Ukraine and Georgian ambassadors again? We need to "work very much" to compromise with them ... what was their last offer? Tell Turkey to stop wasting my time ..."

Where is this "working very much"?
Is it businessmen selling 1980's (40+ year old, 60+ year designs) equipment? Really? No I don't think so.

MHO
BP


Turkey is still a partner of NATO and I've seen nothing to suggest that partnership is going anywhere! So, clearly Turkey remaining in the F-35 Program. Would also be in the interest of the aforementioned....

Regardless, what some members "want" to believe......
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