The Turkey problem

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25908
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 May 2021, 00:39

Above ROITERS (yes I know) article was posted on 19 Feb 2021 with some interesting (to me anyway) final paragraphs:
"...Despite Turkey’s removal from the programme, and sanctions imposed on Turkey’s defence industry in December, the Pentagon has said it will continue to depend on Turkish contractors for key F-35 components. [this needs elaboration because AFAIK the contracts end in 2022?]

Turkey’s communications director Fahrettin Altun said Turkey had already paid for some F-35 jets. “Even a hangar fee was taken from Turkey for the jets it could not take delivery of,” he told a NATO-related event on Thursday. [I think the Dutch amongst others had to pay this hangar fee also - does a turkey whine?]

Defence Minister Hulusi Akar, speaking after a NATO defence ministers’ meeting, said he had “brought to the clear attention of our allies that licensing restrictions, attempts for sanctions or even the threat of sanctions against Turkey” only weaken the alliance." [AS IF the S-400 does not do that as has been made very clear by all other NATO partners]
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post11 May 2021, 01:50

Turkey isn't leaving NATO and NATO isn't leaving Turkey. So, if the issue between the S400 and F-35 can be resolved. (likely) Then why wouldn't Turkey be allowed to at very least acquire the F-35??? Remember, Turkey is still making parts for the F-35 program.

In the end Turkey will get the F-35 and so will Canada. Regardless, of the internal politics....



"IMHO" 8)
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25908
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 May 2021, 02:21

Turkish industry is making F-35 parts which ends when current ongoing contracts end 2022 IIRC. End of Turkey F-35 story.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2793
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post11 May 2021, 03:49

spazsinbad wrote:Turkish industry is making F-35 parts which ends when current ongoing contracts end 2022 IIRC. End of Turkey F-35 story.


This ^^
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post11 May 2021, 04:13

steve2267 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Turkish industry is making F-35 parts which ends when current ongoing contracts end 2022 IIRC. End of Turkey F-35 story.


This ^^



Last I checked it wasn't 2022..... :wink:


Regardless, I just don't see Turkey leaving NATO. Which, means the F-35 is very much still in play.


Again IMHO
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25908
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 May 2021, 05:28

These quotes must be repeats of earlier posts which I'll find in this thread I suppose. Who knows. Who cares? 2022 cares.
Turkey to continue manufacturing F-35 components through 2022, Pentagon says
30 Jun 2020 Daily Sabah

"Turkey will continue manufacturing components for F-35 fighter jets through 2022, U.S. defense officials said, despite Ankara being suspended from the program nearly a year ago over its purchase of a Russian-made air missile defense system.

It is the U.S. Defense Department’s first official confirmation since President Donald Trump himself recently confirmed that Turkey continues to produce key parts for the jet. Turkish officials have also said production was continuing...."

Source: https://www.dailysabah.com/business/def ... tagon-says

Turkey’s removal from F-35 program to cause hike in engine price
23 Apr 2021 Valerie Insinna

"...Turkey, once a partner in the F-35 program and set to buy 100 F-35A conventional takeoff-and-landing models, was expelled from the program after accepting delivery of the Russian S-400 air defense system. At the time, the Pentagon hoped to remove all Turkish suppliers from the program by 2020, but it will take until 2022 for all contracts with Turkish companies to come to a close, said Greg Ulmer, head of Lockheed’s aeronautics programs...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/04 ... ine-price/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

blindpilot

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1333
  • Joined: 01 Mar 2013, 18:21
  • Location: Colorado

Unread post11 May 2021, 05:34

Corsair1963 wrote:....
Regardless, what is being said in the public....
By Reuters Staff


QUOTE: ANKARA (Reuters) -....
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turk ... SKBN2AJ139


:) My sources are not "speaking in public." They are first hand on the ground, and very "private" witnesses. Their truth is witnessed in real life experiences with the "new Turkey."

Just sayin'
BP
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post11 May 2021, 08:23

blindpilot wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:....
Regardless, what is being said in the public....
By Reuters Staff


QUOTE: ANKARA (Reuters) -....
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turk ... SKBN2AJ139


:) My sources are not "speaking in public." They are first hand on the ground, and very "private" witnesses. Their truth is witnessed in real life experiences with the "new Turkey."

Just sayin'
BP


That would very much depend on the source or sources? Yet, while many on both sides may hope for a permanent split. I just don't see it...

Nonetheless, only time will tell...
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post11 May 2021, 08:29

Lastly, let's not forget that the US would love another order for 100 F-35's. Which, would be a very substantial order indeed....
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25908
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 May 2021, 08:33

Sell 'em to Russia directly. Cut out the middle man.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post11 May 2021, 10:36

spazsinbad wrote:Sell 'em to Russia directly. Cut out the middle man.


Why not include the UAE too! :?
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4441
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post11 May 2021, 15:15

You're forgetting the Chinese. Just think of how many they'd need to replace their aging 3rd and 4th gen jets

Biggest windfall for LM since the USAF order:mrgreen:
Offline
User avatar

blindpilot

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1333
  • Joined: 01 Mar 2013, 18:21
  • Location: Colorado

Unread post11 May 2021, 17:42

Corsair1963 wrote:
blindpilot wrote: :) My sources are not "speaking in public." They are first hand on the ground, and very "private" witnesses. Their truth is witnessed in real life experiences with the "new Turkey."
Just sayin'
BP


That would very much depend on the source or sources? Yet, while many on both sides may hope for a permanent split. I just don't see it...


The nature of the sources are those embedded in the culture and economy, both Turk and Western. They are quietly putting their affairs in order and departing. They see nothing good coming from the new "Ottoman Empire." They leave for their children's sake. Can't talk to my Air Force contacts though ... they are in prison. Makes you wonder who is flying the fighter jets ... Yeah very rosy picture, [sarc on] with old NATO tied down over a barrel ... right ... that seems good to me ...[sarc off] Let Russia have their way with them. That's what they want. Meanwhile, there are "other girls at the dance" (on the Black/Agean seas), and they seem to be very excited to take a hand.

FWIW,
BP
PS. I'm not "hoping" for anything. My eyes are filled with tears in grief for what once was and could have been ... I have friends who ache to return to embrace those they left ... and know that will never happen.
Nonetheless, only time will tell...

Yeah that train that left the station might come back some day ... but not today ..
Offline

jessmo112

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 403
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:09

Unread post12 May 2021, 01:03

Siggh..
I dont know why this is so hard to understand.

1. The U.S. is not the only customer for the F-35.

2. The Entire alliance has spoken there is an intense hatred and distrust and hatred in democratic circles these days for Russian meddling, and the Russians in general. Biden was in the Obama administration. Once they are briefed that Americas Premier fighter jet can be compromised here Biden will pitch a fit.

3. Israel also has a vested interest in keeping their edge in the Region. And I can assure you that the Lobby for Israel is profoundly more powerful in America than the Turks.

4. The F-35 is not just a plane that we fly, but its a major export, the 4th gens are fading and this is America's prime fighter offering. Lockheed also has a lobby with deep roots in Capitol hill.
Do you think orders will keep coming?

5. What about the Americans who are still alive when Iran swapped regimes and held hostage?
Do you this it was forgotten that Iran had the latest in U.S. fighter tech?

6. Do you want to be the political party that gave the F-35 secrets to the Russians?

At this point Im not sure anything short of regime change would allow us to give them the planes. Whats to stop them from making a deal to stowing the F-35s and then bringing the Russians in?
Not a snow balls chance in hell!
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7546
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post12 May 2021, 01:07

:doh: :doh: :doh:
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests

cron