Could a next gen engine give F-35 mach 1.5 SC?

All about the Pratt & Whitney F135 and the (cancelled) General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136
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jessmo111

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Unread post22 May 2016, 06:45

1st a little back ground.

Developed under the U.S. Department of Defense’s Adaptive Versatile Engine Technology (ADVENT) and Adaptive Engine Technology Development (AETD) programs, the GE Adaptive Cycle Engine is the only engine that combines outstanding fuel burn with increased, fighter-level thrust, enabling next-generation military combat aircraft to go greater distances and engage more targets.

Unlike traditional engines with fixed airflow, the GE ACE is a variable cycle engine that will automatically alternate between a high-thrust mode for maximum power and a high-efficiency mode for optimum fuel savings. And that means a whole new book of operational possibilities for the U.S. Air Force.
http://www.geaviation.com/military/engi ... ive-cycle/


In essence the Next generation engine allows users to choose between a high efficiency mode or a high thrust mode.
While I'm not sure if GE will ever get a contract, the writing is on the wall for next generation engines.
Future aircraft will be extremely flexible allowing, for either A-10 style loitering high efficiency, or F-22 like performance and the flip of a switch.

It must be noted that pratt is also working on next generation engine upgrades.
While Pratt makes it clear that there is currently no firm requirement for an upgraded F135, the company is working with the U.S. Navy on a fuel-burn improvement program for the engine, which combined with other turbine cooling technologies recently tested on the XTE68/LF1 demonstrator engine could be packaged as the first block of a two-step enhancement. “The Navy is working with us to develop technology for an engine test next year that would demonstrate a 5% fuel-burn reduction in the F-35,” says Pratt & Whitney’s Advanced Programs and Technology Director Jimmy Kenyon. This would be grouped potentially with blade-cooling technology demonstrated in late 2013 on XTE68/LF1, which Kenyon describes as “a fantastically successful test. It was the highest-ever turbine temperature in a production-based engine.”

The block one improvement will offer between a 7% and 10% improvement in thrust, as well as between 5% and 7% better mission fuel burn, and could be available around 2018. “So far, no one has decided they need the capability but we are making sure we are providing the options,” says Pratt & Whitney Military Engines President Bennett Croswell.

Although higher thrust and better fuel burn have obvious payload, range and mission advantages, Pratt expects the main benefit to come from trading the performance for lower operating temperatures and longer time on wing. “We are planning a life-extension for the F135, like we did on the [F100] -229 with an engine enhancement package where you had a 50% improvement in life. So we have set a goal to reduce sustainment costs for the F135 by a factor of 30%. A big piece of that will be increasing the life, which means reducing the number of depot overhauls you do over the life of the engine,” says Croswell. “The real focus for the Joint Program Office and Navy is on reducing life-cycle cost,” adds Kenyon.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=27205


This was discussed here, but I have a burning question.

With thrust increases of 10% or more being promised with both suppliers, could we see a Mach 1.5 super cruising f-35?

1. Is the F-35 drag or intake limited rather than thrust limited?

2. Could we see a highly evolved F-35 in our life time with F-22 like SC, but a loitering mode?

3. Would allies get the upgrade?

4. How does 10% thrust ( I estimate nearly 5K extra Lbs of thrust) translate into performance?

5. Would you be able to make this work in the BEE?

6. And finally, How would mach 1.5 SC effect F-35 tactics, and operations?
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jessmo111

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Unread post22 May 2016, 06:52

I also wanted to point out that the F-35 already has a modest super cruise ability.

Although the Pratt & Whitney F135 F-35 engine was not designed to achieve a supercruise capability,[14] the F-35 is able to maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using afterburners.[15

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercruise

It doesn't seem like mach 1.5 over 150 miles with an advanced engine would be out of the question.
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cantaz

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Unread post22 May 2016, 15:02

We've covered it before: viewtopic.php?p=299343#p299343
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jessmo111

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Unread post28 May 2016, 05:14

Bump
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jul 2016, 08:08

Looks like P & W has some serious competition! :wink:


http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /86953686/

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