F-35 Lightning II vs Dassault Rafale

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 08 Apr 2018, 01:19

We'll find out more soon: yesterday: https://www.defensenews.com/2018/04/06/ ... -aircraft/

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 08 Apr 2018, 03:25

"Germany, France to move ahead on sixth-generation combat aircraft"
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Must be a metric conversion thing.

vanshilar · by **vanshilar** » 08 Apr 2018, 05:42

element1loop wrote:"Germany, France to move ahead on sixth-generation combat aircraft"
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Must be a metric conversion thing.

Why not? Sweden developed one on their own, it can't be that hard for several European countries to collaborate on another one...

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 08 Apr 2018, 06:35

vanshilar wrote:
element1loop wrote:"Germany, France to move ahead on sixth-generation combat aircraft"
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Must be a metric conversion thing.

Why not? Sweden developed one on their own

/Sarc

FIFY

vanshilar · by **vanshilar** » 08 Apr 2018, 07:34

element1loop wrote:FIFY

Should be obvious

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 08 Apr 2018, 09:00

vanshilar wrote:
element1loop wrote:FIFY

Should be obvious

Sadly, not to everyone. :wink:

vilters · by **vilters** » 08 Apr 2018, 14:44

Germany and France together again?

Have they learned NOTHING in the past decades?

Stupid on the very of "criminal".

Taxpayers money down the drain.

monkeypilot · by **monkeypilot** » 08 Apr 2018, 15:04

element1loop wrote:"Germany, France to move ahead on sixth-generation combat aircraft"
----

Must be a metric conversion thing.

Yes, they share a civilised metric system

. More seriously, in their mind (journo's one, noone spoke about 6th gen here or in Germany), 6th Gen could be linked to massive AI use.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 09 Apr 2018, 07:29

French Navy Aircraft, Crews Arrive in Virginia for Qualifications on U.S. Carrier
06 Apr 2018 RICHARD R. BURGESS

"...Six Rafales arrived at NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach on April 5, according to an email sent by aircraft spotters in the area. Six more Rafales were expected to arrive April 6, along with one E-2C Hawkeye radar warning aircraft. The Rafales are assigned to 11, 12 and 17 Flotilles (squadrons), and the E-2C is assigned to 4 Flotille....

...After field carrier landing practice, the French aircraft will embark on USS George H.W. Bush for two weeks for joint carrier operations with the U.S. Navy’s Carrier Air Wing Eight."

Source: http://seapowermagazine.org/stories/201 ... rench.html

sunstersun · by **sunstersun** » 09 Apr 2018, 08:49

Only UK and France have been offered use of an American aircraft carrier.

Seems fitting really.

monkeypilot · by **monkeypilot** » 09 Apr 2018, 11:21

The six remaining Rafale and the E2C arrived safely yesterday (aswell as logistics and personel). Everything is "green", no issue and real work to start today.
It is very interesting in terms of interoperability isn't it?

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 09 Apr 2018, 11:36

marsavian wrote:How can the FCA be outdated when it will be a clean sheet design that has not yet been specified yet apart from a few general principles. It could be faster than F-35, it could have broadband stealth (i.e be tail-less), it could have longer range, all the possibilities have yet to be defined. You are automatically assuming it will be inferior when In all likelihood it will be designed from the outset to try and be superior in some respects. As for Italy's thoughts on the matter ...

Because when the FCA finally reaches operational service (in what?? 2045? Later?) and even if the FCA ends up being a bit better than the F-35, the Americans and its closer allies will start to field a much more advanced 6th generation fighter aircraft (whatever this might be), or resuming and like I previously said: History repeating itself with what's currently happening where the "Europeans" (France and Germany to be accurate) field 4th gen fighter aircraft (like the Typhoon or Rafale) which are at best marginally better than the (older) American 4th gen fighter aircraft (and even this is opened to debate) while the Americans and its closer allies are fielding a much more advanced fighter aircraft - the F-35.

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 09 Apr 2018, 11:38

swiss wrote:
ricnunes wrote: The F-35 would allow these European countries (France and Germany) to acquire important technology in a timely manner so that they could if they want to develop a 6th gen fighter aircraft instead of content themselves with updating an already outdated FCA and thus, history repeating itself again.

This is indeed a interesting point. But i assume LM wouldn't like that.

Yes, I also believe in your assumption :wink:

monkeypilot · by **monkeypilot** » 09 Apr 2018, 13:57

ricnunes wrote:
marsavian wrote:How can the FCA be outdated when it will be a clean sheet design that has not yet been specified yet apart from a few general principles. It could be faster than F-35, it could have broadband stealth (i.e be tail-less), it could have longer range, all the possibilities have yet to be defined. You are automatically assuming it will be inferior when In all likelihood it will be designed from the outset to try and be superior in some respects. As for Italy's thoughts on the matter ...

Because when the FCA finally reaches operational service (in what?? 2045? Later?) and even if the FCA ends up being a bit better than the F-35, the Americans and its closer allies will start to field a much more advanced 6th generation fighter aircraft (whatever this might be), or resuming and like I previously said: History repeating itself with what's currently happening where the "Europeans" (France and Germany to be accurate) field 4th gen fighter aircraft (like the Typhoon or Rafale) which are at best marginally better than the (older) American 4th gen fighter aircraft (and even this is opened to debate) while the Americans and its closer allies are fielding a much more advanced fighter aircraft - the F-35.

How do you know that? You are using adjectives as if they were God's words. "better" "more advanced" etc. do not mean a lot in terms of military aircrafts if you do not describe the context. Eurofighter and Rafale are much more advanced within their own context than any 4th gen US aircraft. Simply because they were built to fit different specifications. Same applies to F-35. About the future, do you have a cristal ball?

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 09 Apr 2018, 14:53

monkeypilot wrote:How do you know that? You are using adjectives as if they were God's words. "better" "more advanced" etc. do not mean a lot in terms of military aircrafts if you do not describe the context.

Are you even trying to dispute that the F-35 is more advanced than the Rafale or Typhoon?

Are you trying to dispute that the F-15/F-16 were more advanced than the Mirage 2000?

Are you trying to dispute that the F-4 was more advanced than the Mirage III?

By way, note that all planes that I put on the same sentences above are/were contemporaries.

monkeypilot wrote:Eurofighter and Rafale are much more advanced within their own context than any 4th gen US aircraft. Simply because they were built to fit different specifications. Same applies to F-35.

That's disputable at best!
I (and others) even provided evidence or indication if you will, that the Super Hornet is likely more advanced in terms of air-to-ground roles and that the Rafale or Typhoon aren't much more advanced than updated F-16's and F-15's (namely Strike Eagles).

monkeypilot wrote:About the future, do you have a cristal ball?

Yes, I have a "cristal ball" - My "cristal ball" is called history and learning from it! Or if you prefer, history repeating itself over and over again...