F-35 Lightning II vs Dassault Rafale

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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herciv

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Unread post13 May 2021, 19:14

herciv wrote:That's really a big deploiement : 12 f-35A wich have flown directly from UTAH to France in four groups of three each with a tanker and have arrived one weeks before the beginning and 8 F-35B comming from the QE.
https://www.key.aero/article/usaf-f-35a ... ic-trident

Atlantic Trident 21 will take place at Mont-de-Marsan from May 17-28. It is a joint multinational exercise which involves air arms and personnel from France, the UK and the US. The event aims to enhance fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft integration, combat readiness and fighting capabilities by conducting complex air operations in a contested multinational joint force environment.

A dozen F-35As from the 4th FS have deployed to the French base. All with ‘HL’ tail codes, these aircraft comprise serials (in order of arrival): 17-5270 (c/n AF-212); 17-5251 (c/n AF-193); 17-5238 (c/n AF-180); 17-5261 (c/n AF-203); 17-5248 (c/n 190); 17-5252 (c/n AF-194); 17-5259 (c/n AF-201); 17-5268 (c/n AF-210); 17-5253 (c/n AF-195), 15-5196 (c/n AF-171); 17-5243 (c/n AF-185); and 17-5265 (c/n AF-207).

This is the 388th FW’s third F-35A deployment to Europe in recent years. The first saw the 34th FS ‘Rude Rams’ deploy to RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk, UK, in April 2017. The second visit came in May 2019, when the 421st FS ‘Black Widows’ deployed to Aviano Air Base in Italy as a Theater Security Package.
Last edited by herciv on 13 May 2021, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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herciv

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Unread post13 May 2021, 19:32

Here's the notebook explaining the whole asset in Atlantic Trident :
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/content/dow ... 1rique.pdf
Last edited by herciv on 13 May 2021, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post13 May 2021, 19:43

1- Introduction

The "Atlantic Trident" exercise will take place for the first time in France and Europe, from May 17 to 28, 2021, at Mont-de-Marsan Air Base 118 (Landes). Organized by the French Air Force Command (CFA), this training will see the participation of the three Western air forces, among the only ones in the world capable of operating on the entire spectrum of air missions: the US Air Force, the British Royal Air Force and the French Air Force and Space Agency. With some of the most capable fighter aircraft in the world, the three air forces are among the only nations capable of immediately deploying a joint air force capable of carrying out high-intensity missions behind enemy lines.

Some 60 aircraft, including 50 fighters, tankers (French and American KC-135s, A330 Phenix and Voyager) and detection and control systems (British E-3D and French E-3F) will be used in complex air missions, reflecting the reality of modern air combat (digitization of airspace, changes in the strategic context and adversary defenses).

Atlantic Trident 2021 in figures
7 COMAO at 15 vs 15, 20 vs 20 or even 20 vs 40 (with 10 support assets)9 shadow waves at 12 vs 8 (with 2 support assets)More than 600 participants457 people deployed at Mont-de-Marsan Air Base 11850 fighter aircraft15 support aircraft (tankers, command and control, transport and assault, helicopters).

2 - The exercise and its issue
The Atlantic Trident exercise is the result of a strategic partnership called the Trilateral Strategic Initiative (TSI), established between the U.S., British and French air forces since 2010. The first two editions were held at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, in 2015 and 2017. Demonstrating the ability of the three air forces to fight together, with agility, power, responsiveness and precision, the Atlantic Trident exercise is based on more than 100 years of history, side by side, in coalition or under the NATO banner. Between technological performance and operational challenge, this high-level exercise aims to test and improve interoperability and mutual tactical and technical knowledge between the three air forces. Combining the latest generation of combat aircraft (Rafale, British Typhoon and F35, American F35), it aims to ensure the combat readiness of crews and encourage the development of common procedures, during high-intensity training missions. Throughout the exercise, crews dialogue and develop tactics to get the best out of each type of aircraft. Together, they work in a friendly coalition called Blue Force.

They develop and conduct combined raids against an enemy force (Red Force), made up of Mirage 2000s, Alphajets, PC-21s and French Rafales. To meet tomorrow's threats, they are preparing to fight together in high-intensity combat. This objective requires maximum integration between each of these latest generation fighter aircraft. For the purposes of the exercise, a fictitious scenario has been established. The Blue Force must respond to repeated attacks by the Red Force with air defense missions, called Defensive Counter Air (DCA), to protect an area or territory. The final objective is to obtain air supremacy, in order to be able to annihilate the enemy threat by offensive air raids in depth, behind the battle lines.

The first morning round is dedicated to a "Main Wave", with COMAO (Composite Air Operations) type missions. These large-scale operations involve simulated combat involving all the aircraft, with very distinct roles. The afternoons will be dedicated to less complex missions with reduced manpower, also known as "Shadow Wave", in which the different squadrons will confront each other in a variety of scenarios, in which the airmen and their counterparts will be either allies or aggressors. Pilots take turns commanding these missions and act as Mission Commanders, orchestrating the air raid. From the operations command post, an Airboss animates the scenario by visualizing the tactical air situation in real time.

Expertise level: COMAO WAVE (20 vs. 20) - planning large-scale international "Entry Force*" missions; - conducting these missions; - debriefing and progressing together.Elementary and advanced level: SHADOW WAVE (12 vs. 8) - visual combat; - close air support (CAS); - electronic warfare; - jamming; - MFE (Mixed Fighter Element) = mixed patrol of French and foreign fighters. *Entry Force: first entry into a contested airspace, on hostile territory13 The first turn of the morning is dedicated to a "Main Wave", with COMAO (Composite Air Operations) type missions. These large-scale operations involve simulated combat involving all the aircraft, with very distinct roles. The afternoons will be dedicated to less complex missions with reduced manpower, also known as "Shadow Wave", in which the different squadrons will confront each other in a variety of scenarios, in which the airmen and their counterparts will be either allies or aggressors. Pilots take turns commanding these missions and act as Mission Commanders, orchestrating the air raid. From the operations command post, an Airboss animates the scenario by visualizing the tactical air situation in real time.


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herciv

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Unread post13 May 2021, 20:12

4 COMMITTED RESOURCES
From the air base 118 of Mont-de-Marsan
8 Rafale, 30th Fighter Wing (Mont-de-Marsan)4 Rafale,
4th Fighter Wing (Saint-Dizier)
12 F-35 A Lightning, 388th Fighter Wing (USAF - Hill Air Force Base)

From HMS Queen Elizabeth (Royal Air Force)
4 F-35 B Lightning, 617 (Dambusters) Squadron (RAF)
4 F-35 B Lightning, United States Marine Corps Aviation (USAF)

From their own air bases
4 Typhoon, XI Squadron (Coningsby AFB - Great Britain)
2 KC 135, 100 ARW (Mildenhall AFB - Great Britain)
2 KC-30 Voyager, 10 & 101 Squadron (Brize Norton - Great Britain)
1 Phénix or 1 C135, air refueling group (Istres)
1 E-3F, airborne detection and control squadron (Avord)
1 E3-D, VIII Squadron (Waddington - Great Britain)

2 Mirage 2000D, 3rd fighter wing (Nancy)
4 Mirage 2000-5, 2nd fighter wing (Luxeuil)
2 Mirage 2000 RDI, 2/5 "Île de France" fighter squadron (Orange)
4 Alphajet, 8th fighter wing (Cazaux)
2 Pilatus PC-21, French Air Force flight school (Cognac)
4 Rafale Marine, flotilla 12F (Landivisiau NAS)
2 Caracal, 1/67 "Pyrénées" helicopter squadron (Cazaux)
1 A400M Atlas, 1/61 "Touraine" transport squadron (Orléans)
2 C130, 62nd transport squadron (Orléans)

Communication jamming
SCRIBE, ground electronic squadron (Orléans)

Control units
Mont-de-Marsan Air Traffic Services Squadron
Mont-de-Marsan and Cinq-Mars-La-Pile detection and control centers
Military coordination and control centers
Deployable detection and control center, mobile detection and control squadron

Communication jamming
SCRIBE, ground electronic squadron (Orléans)
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Unread post14 May 2021, 05:21

F-35A's visit France for french fries and big macs. :cheers:

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herciv

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Unread post18 May 2021, 13:11

US and french Pilot preparing mission over France :

https://twitter.com/Armee_de_lair/statu ... 3155277826

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herciv

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Unread post19 May 2021, 06:31

Imminent announcement for Indonesia:


"The contract for the Rafale acquisition (36 to 40 ?) is awaiting a (Indonesian) presidential decree, which will allow for the replenishment of Ministry of Defense budget lines to finance the purchase."


https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 84904.html
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Unread post19 May 2021, 07:10

herciv wrote:Here's the notebook explaining the whole asset in Atlantic Trident :
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/content/dow ... 1rique.pdf


Great info, thank you! I think it's really great that this kind of multinational exercises are being held at this scale.
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herciv

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Unread post19 May 2021, 07:53

hornetfinn wrote:
herciv wrote:Here's the notebook explaining the whole asset in Atlantic Trident :
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/content/dow ... 1rique.pdf


Great info, thank you! I think it's really great that this kind of multinational exercises are being held at this scale.

You're welcome.

There are at least 3 main exercices in Europe currently. Every week a major exercice is done in pacific or indian ocean. This is the end of the peace days.

Do you realised that 12 f-35A and 8 F-35B are engaged in France (could be more) !!!!
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Unread post19 May 2021, 09:17

She be very interesting.....with Rafales, Typhoons, and F-35A/B's working closely together!
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herciv

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Unread post19 May 2021, 10:59

Just for your eyes :
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herciv

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Unread post20 May 2021, 07:20

Ladies and gentleman we are now celabrating a new alliance ..
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Unread post20 May 2021, 07:23

herciv wrote:Ladies and gentleman we are now celabrating a new alliance ..




Did anybody notice the F-35's were all equipped with Luneberg Lens (radar reflectors).... :wink:


21st.jpg



In addition the F-35's were clean and the Rafales and Typhoons had external fuel tanks..... :|
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herciv

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Unread post20 May 2021, 08:53

Corsair1963 wrote: Did anybody notice the F-35's were all equipped with Luneberg Lens (radar reflectors).... :wink:

Yes I did

Corsair1963 wrote:In addition the F-35's were clean and the Rafales and Typhoons had external fuel tanks..... :|

For the rafale it depend from the picture. In one of those Rafale has one fuel tank.

For the typhoon since they have come from quite far It's understandable. For rafale 2 external fuel tanks are commons.
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Unread post20 May 2021, 09:12

herciv wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote: Did anybody notice the F-35's were all equipped with Luneberg Lens (radar reflectors).... :wink:

Yes I did

Corsair1963 wrote:In addition the F-35's were clean and the Rafales and Typhoons had external fuel tanks..... :|

For the rafale it depend from the picture. In one of those Rafale has one fuel tank.

For the typhoon since they have come from quite far It's understandable. For rafale 2 external fuel tanks are commons.



Common because they're needed..........
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