F-35 exceeds F-22 for air superiority?

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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xt0xickillax

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Unread post20 Nov 2022, 19:51

F-22 won’t be around much longer, it’s old, hard to upgrade especially against upcoming adversaries like Su-57 and maybe J-20. But it seems like it won’t matter because in the US, the F-35 is rumored to be doing well against F-22s in exercises. So is there really a point in F-22? It can go supercruise but it guzzles a lot of gas and the sensors are much inferior to F-35. Not to mention F-35 bears F-22 subsonic acceleration. With Sidekick F-35 can carry same amount of AMRAAMs as F-22. It’s no wonder that USAF wants get rid of F-22 by 2030.

F-22 advantage:
[*]Supercruise (big IR signature)
[*]Supersonic acceleration (rarely used)

F-35 advantage:
[*]Sensors like EOTS
[*]Bigger numbers
[*]Stealthier
[*]Subsonic acceleration

Advantage for F-22 seems rarely used or have downsides. So are there any real world advantage of F-22 over F-35?

Seems like there’s not much point to F-22. Note that Su-57 and maybe J-20 also has sensors like the F-35, so no wonder USAF is rushing to get NGAD. Especially Su-57 is aerodynamically the king, but only in small numbers right now. J-20 looks questionable but still quite a threat, and Chicoms are building them quickly.
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wrightwing

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Unread post20 Nov 2022, 21:48

xt0xickillax wrote:F-22 won’t be around much longer, it’s old, hard to upgrade especially against upcoming adversaries like Su-57 and maybe J-20. But it seems like it won’t matter because in the US, the F-35 is rumored to be doing well against F-22s in exercises. So is there really a point in F-22? It can go supercruise but it guzzles a lot of gas and the sensors are much inferior to F-35. Not to mention F-35 bears F-22 subsonic acceleration. With Sidekick F-35 can carry same amount of AMRAAMs as F-22. It’s no wonder that USAF wants get rid of F-22 by 2030.

F-22 advantage:
[*]Supercruise (big IR signature)
[*]Supersonic acceleration (rarely used)

F-35 advantage:
[*]Sensors like EOTS
[*]Bigger numbers
[*]Stealthier
[*]Subsonic acceleration

Advantage for F-22 seems rarely used or have downsides. So are there any real world advantage of F-22 over F-35?

Seems like there’s not much point to F-22. Note that Su-57 and maybe J-20 also has sensors like the F-35, so no wonder USAF is rushing to get NGAD. Especially Su-57 is aerodynamically the king, but only in small numbers right now. J-20 looks questionable but still quite a threat, and Chicoms are building them quickly.


There's a wealth of ill informed commentary here. The F-22 isn't retiring until NGAD is available in sufficient numbers and program maturity. The F-22 fleet is currently being upgraded with new sensors, avionics/computers, datalinks, EW/EA systems, cockpit displays, helmet sights, stealthy low drag EFTs, among a number of other improvements, which will last through ~2031. The F-22 fleet will be the first to carry the AIM-260. The Su-57 and J-20 are inferior in most every metric to the F-22 in its current form, and after it's MLU will be far behind in performance.
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jessmo112

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Unread post20 Nov 2022, 22:12

xt0xickillax wrote:F-22 won’t be around much longer, it’s old, hard to upgrade especially against upcoming adversaries like Su-57 and maybe J-20. But it seems like it won’t matter because in the US, the F-35 is rumored to be doing well against F-22s in exercises. So is there really a point in F-22? It can go supercruise but it guzzles a lot of gas and the sensors are much inferior to F-35. Not to mention F-35 bears F-22 subsonic acceleration. With Sidekick F-35 can carry same amount of AMRAAMs as F-22. It’s no wonder that USAF wants get rid of F-22 by 2030.

F-22 advantage:
[*]Supercruise (big IR signature)
[*]Supersonic acceleration (rarely used)

F-35 advantage:
[*]Sensors like EOTS
[*]Bigger numbers
[*]Stealthier
[*]Subsonic acceleration

Advantage for F-22 seems rarely used or have downsides. So are there any real world advantage of F-22 over F-35?

Seems like there’s not much point to F-22. Note that Su-57 and maybe J-20 also has sensors like the F-35, so no wonder USAF is rushing to get NGAD. Especially Su-57 is aerodynamically the king, but only in small numbers right now. J-20 looks questionable but still quite a threat, and Chicoms are building them quickly.


Doesn't the F-22 also have passive listening signet ect?
And kinematics cannot be understated.
I would put a F-22 up against a flanker or a J-20 even without stealth. A flanker isn't going to go Mach 1.8 with drop tanks and missiles. The J-20 will give up signal data for a passive track. Kinematics allows the F-22 to throw the missile farther.

The F-22 is also a beast in BMF. It's a no compromise A2A monster. This will last until the NGAD arrives and a new paradgrim is created
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ricnunes

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Unread post20 Nov 2022, 23:28

xt0xickillax wrote:So is there really a point in F-22? It can go supercruise but it guzzles a lot of gas and the sensors are much inferior to F-35.


Besides the reasons that others already mentioned there's also the fact that:
1- The F-22 fleet is quite new. If there are savings to be made then retire the F-15s, F-16s and A-10s which are much older and less capable.
2- The F-22 sensors may be inferior to the F-35 but they are still superior to any other aircraft, being it US/Allied, Chinese, Russian or otherwise.
3- Keeping the F-22 helps keeping the numbers high(er), specially until NGAD comes up which will surely take quite awhile. 1700 F-35s + 183 F-22s is more than 1700 F-35s (only).
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post21 Nov 2022, 01:26

To the OP, there is no need to post another absurd topic like this because there are plenty of previous ones around. Use the "search" feature.
I'm watching...

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