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Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 00:49
by sferrin
I believe I owe a mea culpa here regarding missile rate launch of the Aegis system. In trying to track down the video of four rapid fire launch (which I never found) I remembered this one. . .that I've had on my channel for 5 years now. :roll: :oops: :doh:


Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 02:46
by gta4
Since simultaneous multiple missile launch is confirmed officially, there is no need to find a video to prove its fire rate. If you cannot find a video showing simultaneous multiple missile launch, it's your problem, or maybe no video is released to public, but you can't deny this capability.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 03:04
by sferrin
gta4 wrote:Since simultaneous multiple missile launch is confirmed officially, there is no need to find a video to prove its fire rate. If you cannot find a video showing simultaneous multiple missile launch, it's your problem, or maybe no video is released to public, but you can't deny this capability.


To be fair, your link did not say simultaneous launch and the picture you show doesn't even address what system it's talking about.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 14:01
by gta4
VLS_multiple.jpg


Source from Lockheed Martin. Happy now?

vls baseline cover.png

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 14:17
by sferrin
gta4 wrote:
VLS_multiple.jpg


Source from Lockheed Martin. Happy now?


How did you divine that given the word "Lockheed" appears nowhere in the document? Look, you're free to believe whatever you want. I'd prefer something a bit more definitive. Sorry. I believe this horse is long dead.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 14:44
by madrat
Trademark image top right.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 15:18
by sferrin
madrat wrote:Trademark image top right.


Good point. I'm probably nit-picking anyway. The most likely limit would be adequate separation between rounds leaving the cells so they don't impinge on one another.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 07:56
by jessmo112
Here is an updated comparison.

J-20 versus F-22 versus F-35
J-20:
https://youtu.be/YESJAygRpE8

F-35:
https://youtu.be/CM6QqDbqhmM

F-22
https://youtu.be/9faX9QH7-dk


Notice anything:
1. It seems like the J-20 has a snappier roll rate than the F-35. How this translates to performance is beyond me.

2. No where near the AOA of an F-35 but decent.

3. Nose pointing and ITR seems behind the F-35.
Maybe Im wrong or the pilot is holding back.

Both planes can't even touch the F-22
I have heard Rumors that the Chinese like to speed up video footage to hide a planes deficiencies.
Also how does being faster in a role but slower in nose pointing affect performance in a dogfight?
Wasn't the A-4 a plane with a very snappy roll rate?
How did that help in BMF?
Can someone smarter than me answer?

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 09:47
by spazsinbad
Unless the video footage is official posted on an official website as such I would not put too much into whatever is viewed.

The A-4 at best roll speed (about 250 KIAS) could roll with maximum aileron deflection at 720 degrees per second. Probably only test pilots achieved that because the aircraft was restricted to ONE ROLL before inertia coupling took effect. The rear end would start barrel rolling whilst the front part rolled and then really bad things would happen. We could read about this in NATOPS or APPROACH Accident Reports etc. Usually the pilot would get to about half aileron deflection and the 360 degree roll was complete (ailerons would be centralised before that though). Really good to have excellent aileron response at Optimum Angle of Attack for Carrier Approaches for Line Up Corrections (but power & AoA also involved - always the three in a funny dance with the LSO perhaps having a heart attack). A lot of 'training jet aircraft' I flew were dead dogs aileron wise at runway approach speeds. The SEA VENOM with long wings had a funny control column aileron helper for the pilot get more out of the ailerons at carrier approach KIAS. DACT might be useful depending on circumstances that I'm not going to get into here, as I did not fly a lot of DACT with too much 1v1 against other A4Gs which was exhausting if pilots had similar skills/experience.

Somewhere on the internet/youtube there is a video of an A-4K (RNZAF Kiwi KAHU) carrying out a display in NZed going vertical rolling in the vertical plane several times whilst dumping flares. I guess this was cleared because of the vertical/display. Vaguely I recall seeing the flares starting to barrel roll (the aircraft is almost invisible in the distance).

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 12:31
by jessmo112
I couldn't find your video, but I bet your A-4
Was never this fancy with all of the
Ipodz gadgets, and puter screens inside.

https://youtu.be/df1J1WrXXtA

Anyhow I guess the moral to the story is being able to roll super fast doesn't help much in BFM, unless your strategy is to cause a catastrophic departure of a stabilizer and throw it at an enemy.
Chinas bird is gonna have trouble keeping the F-35 in the window let alone an F-22.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 12:44
by jessmo112
1 more thing at the 15 second mark the J-20 pulls back on the stick. Im thinking that hes going to go into the vertical like we have seen F-35/F-22 do.
Instead he bleeds off energy in a roll.
Now I cant tell if this is careful editing or
He actually did this. Either way this doesn't bode well for the planes performance post stall.
Near the end he tries the loop, and thats when it cuts off.
Shes a big girl.

https://youtu.be/YESJAygRpE8

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 13:37
by ricnunes
jessmo112 wrote:Notice anything:
1. It seems like the J-20 has a snappier roll rate than the F-35. How this translates to performance is beyond me.


I believe that's more of a camera perspective view or the pilots pushing more or less the stick sideways to perform the rolls than an actual conclusion/fact even because if you look from minute 2:50 to minute 2:54 of your F-35 video then you'll see the F-35 performing 2 straight and very 'snappy' rolls which IMO are on par with those shown on your J-20 video and which are even more impressive since those F-35 rolls were performed while the aircraft was climbing vertically.

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 13:54
by hornetfinn
Those J-20 maneuvers remind me a lot of how Saab Viggen airshows looked like compared to 4th generation jets like F-15 and F-16. Basically good nice maneuvers for the most part, but restricted by engine power and AoA/G limits. Of course J-20 also has some resemblance to Saab Viggen visually too. Interesting to see what they can show in say 5 years from now...

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 16:15
by gta4
Some PLAAF fan boys are notorious for speeding up J-20 video:
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=52913

Sped up video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kKFEraGVzI

Original video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bzCob_7oJw

Re: J-20 VERSUS F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2021, 21:37
by jessmo112
Pathetic!