Page 7 of 8

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 11:13
by gta4
garry wrote:Can you elaborate in more detail? what is the nose pointing rate of Su-35 and what is the roll rate ?


The fastest nose pointing rate (under control, of course) of F-35 video shows at least 90deg/sec. The video is in previous replies, this thread.

The fastest roll rate of F-35 video shows at least 300 deg/sec. The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qceZALo ... be&t=1m15s

No video of Su-35 demonstrates similar performances.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 11:47
by munny
I finally saw the f-35 at Avalon airshow yesterday and gotta say I'm impressed. The pilots didn't perform a full aerobatics display but did a few highish AoA turns with AB and a few with mil thrust. It definitely did NOT look sluggish at all.

Couple things I noticed. The f-16, f-22 and f-35 all flew during the hot, dry part of the day which gave a good opportunity to compare certain aspects of how they fly. The f-16 accelerated pretty well when it went nose down and full AB. The f-22 seemed a little more sluggish when it did the same. The f-35 pilot put his gear down a few times pretending he was going to land only to put them up again as he got to the start of the runway then planted the AB again. the f-35s acceleration in level flight looked on par to the f-16 in a 20 degree dive and looked a lot better than the raptor's. All at sea levelish of course.

Also I noticed during some of the high aoa turns the f-35s elevators were periodically flapping back to level during the turns. Claws kicking in I presume. Wonder what it can do when they open them up because the turns looked pretty impressive for something that "can't turn". The mil thrust, sustained turns looked good too. Nozzles close significantly at mil thrust which I would guess is great for frontal IR stealth when approaching a target or rear RCS when flying away.

Another vertical climb out (like the Norwegian demo) accelerating as it climbed at the start after a very short take off.

The second pilot commentating said that the f-35 really earns its money performance wise during sub to supersonic transition saying pretty clearly that it does it faster and more efficiently than other jets with stores loaded. Goes against certain reports on transonic acceleration.

The F-35 is significantly louder than the f-16, superhornet, and hornet. Much Lower pitched rumbling (thunder) sound than the others but with a much louder crackling sound than the others that makes everyone without ear protection cover up as it flies over.

The wing vortices trailing the jet snake around and create knots and patterns about 200m or so behind the jet. Pretty cool to watch.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 14:55
by mixelflick
munny wrote:I finally saw the f-35 at Avalon airshow yesterday and gotta say I'm impressed. The pilots didn't perform a full aerobatics display but did a few highish AoA turns with AB and a few with mil thrust. It definitely did NOT look sluggish at all.

Couple things I noticed. The f-16, f-22 and f-35 all flew during the hot, dry part of the day which gave a good opportunity to compare certain aspects of how they fly. The f-16 accelerated pretty well when it went nose down and full AB. The f-22 seemed a little more sluggish when it did the same. The f-35 pilot put his gear down a few times pretending he was going to land only to put them up again as he got to the start of the runway then planted the AB again. the f-35s acceleration in level flight looked on par to the f-16 in a 20 degree dive and looked a lot better than the raptor's. All at sea levelish of course.

Also I noticed during some of the high aoa turns the f-35s elevators were periodically flapping back to level during the turns. Claws kicking in I presume. Wonder what it can do when they open them up because the turns looked pretty impressive for something that "can't turn". The mil thrust, sustained turns looked good too. Nozzles close significantly at mil thrust which I would guess is great for frontal IR stealth when approaching a target or rear RCS when flying away.

Another vertical climb out (like the Norwegian demo) accelerating as it climbed at the start after a very short take off.

The second pilot commentating said that the f-35 really earns its money performance wise during sub to supersonic transition saying pretty clearly that it does it faster and more efficiently than other jets with stores loaded. Goes against certain reports on transonic acceleration.

The F-35 is significantly louder than the f-16, superhornet, and hornet. Much Lower pitched rumbling (thunder) sound than the others but with a much louder crackling sound than the others that makes everyone without ear protection cover up as it flies over.

The wing vortices trailing the jet snake around and create knots and patterns about 200m or so behind the jet. Pretty cool to watch.


Wouldn't wing vortices be a negative in air to air engagements? Meaning if you're flying Mig's, Flankers, J-31's etc you'd be easily able to differentiate the F-35 as hostile, in comparison to one of your own jets??

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 02:28
by steve2267
mixelflick wrote:Wouldn't wing vortices be a negative in air to air engagements? Meaning if you're flying Mig's, Flankers, J-31's etc you'd be easily able to differentiate the F-35 as hostile, in comparison to one of your own jets??


IMO, the wingtip vortices produced by the the F-35 are a non-issue. ALL aircraft wings shed vortices off the wing tips. Given the design constraints of the F-35, I'm not sure you could easily re-design the wings to NOT give off such concentrated vortices.

But I really don't think it is an issue.

If an enema fighter is close enough to see wingtip vortices, he's in all likelihood already dead.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 22 Sep 2020, 22:19
by pron
Don't they have simulators in Russia? :doh:

The Western Military District announced that a Russian Su-30 (presumably Su-30SM) fighter crashed in Tver today. Both crewmembers ejected safely.

The военный осведомитель channel is saying that the Su-30SM that crashed today was actually shot down by a Su-35S fighter that accidentally shot the fighter with its cannon.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/stat ... 0200178689

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 08:24
by Corsair1963
pron wrote:Don't they have simulators in Russia? :doh:

The Western Military District announced that a Russian Su-30 (presumably Su-30SM) fighter crashed in Tver today. Both crewmembers ejected safely.

The военный осведомитель channel is saying that the Su-30SM that crashed today was actually shot down by a Su-35S fighter that accidentally shot the fighter with its cannon.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/stat ... 0200178689


Reports say the Su-35 shot down the Su-30SM. Seems the cannon was loaded and the pilot was unaware. So, when he closed for the gun kill. It actually fired! :shock:

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 09:37
by element1loop
So only a live-fire 'mode' then?

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 23 Sep 2020, 15:03
by hornetfinn
Now that's some realistic training right there... :shock: Glad that nobody was seriously injured or dead in that incident.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 25 Sep 2020, 16:08
by ricnunes
LoL :shock:

I'm guessing that those Russians Sukhois don't have anything like this: :roll:
Image

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 26 Sep 2020, 12:49
by mixelflick
Red Flag: Now the world's 2nd most realistic combat training...

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 01 Oct 2020, 23:51
by nutshell
I can't understand the need to pull the trigger.

Couldn't he just called for a guns!guns!guns' ?

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 08:20
by hornetfinn
nutshell wrote:I can't understand the need to pull the trigger.

Couldn't he just called for a guns!guns!guns' ?


I think the Air Combat Maneuver Instrumentation (ACMI) system will record the weapon events exactly when the trigger is pulled. So it can record and analyze the exact situation and flight state of shooter and target. That will give highly accurate estimate what would've happened in real life. Just calling "guns, guns, guns" would be vastly less accurate and more subjective. That's important in making sure that the pilots learn to use their weapons correctly in the heat of hard maneuvering.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 14:59
by milosh
For exercises, ground crew cut electricity to gun as safety measure but it look like someone forgot to do that.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 15:58
by sprstdlyscottsmn
not the first time either, this happened some years back with a MiG-29 as I recall.

Re: Proof: F-35 can out-accelerate Su-27/35 in subsonic regi

Unread postPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 22:39
by ricnunes
milosh wrote:For exercises, ground crew cut electricity to gun as safety measure but it look like someone forgot to do that.


So, it's confirmed that there's no simulate/simulation mode/switch in Russian fighter aircraft? :doh: