F-35 and X-47B

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post22 Aug 2021, 16:12

I'm not going to research what an E-2 upgrade involved - you can do that. However I don't believe an E-2 is like a C-2 for flying around the ship, carrier approaches & catapults & such-like. You have a stinking idea by the tail with C-2 upgrade.

Night flying: The C-2 cannot ARF so if it misses too many night traps it has no fuel? to get to a land based runway. I think that is mentioned in the LONG story earlier? Usually the carrier is not close-in so an overhead refueler is needed etc.
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ricnunes

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Unread post22 Aug 2021, 23:09

spazsinbad wrote:I'm not going to research what an E-2 upgrade involved - you can do that. However I don't believe an E-2 is like a C-2 for flying around the ship, carrier approaches & catapults & such-like. You have a stinking idea by the tail with C-2 upgrade.


Source:
https://www.military.com/equipment/e-2c-hawkeye
The E-2C Hawkeye is the U.S. Navy’s primary carrier-based airborne early warning and command and control aircraft. The twin turboprop Hawkeye shares its basic airframe with the C-2 Greyhound but is fitted with a 24-foot rotating radome housing an APS-145 (some have the APS-139 radar).


If the E-2 can then certainly the C-2 can as well (since both are basically the same aircraft/airframe).
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post23 Aug 2021, 01:23

At last the E-2D was fitted or will be fitted with an air refuel probe. What did they do without ARF? I guess their E-2 unARF long endurance ensured they could BINGO ashore but I'm not familiar with E-2C/D ops. You are still willing to make great leaps of faith about the similarities between C-2 & E-2 making an 'upgraded somehow' C-2 a much better aircraft. GLWT. Good Luck With That. Somewhere I read that an 'upgrade' to the C-2 was considered but USN decided it was too costly. Are we back to square one yet?
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Unread post23 Aug 2021, 12:47

I don't think C-2 shared the engine upgrade path of the E-2.

The E-2 is a highly computerized system maintained by iPad. C-2 is old skoolz.
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Unread post23 Aug 2021, 19:22

spazsinbad wrote:At last the E-2D was fitted or will be fitted with an air refuel probe. What did they do without ARF? I guess their E-2 unARF long endurance ensured they could BINGO ashore but I'm not familiar with E-2C/D ops. You are still willing to make great leaps of faith about the similarities between C-2 & E-2 making an 'upgraded somehow' C-2 a much better aircraft. GLWT. Good Luck With That. Somewhere I read that an 'upgrade' to the C-2 was considered but USN decided it was too costly. Are we back to square one yet?


madrat wrote:I don't think C-2 shared the engine upgrade path of the E-2.

The E-2 is a highly computerized system maintained by iPad. C-2 is old skoolz.


Hence why I mentioned a new build and new variant of the C-2.

But ok, if you prefer lets drop the C-2 and then why not develop a variant of the E-2D that can perform the Tanker, COD and ASW roles?
This way (and again) the Navy would get a single platform to perform all the support roles (AWACS, Tanker, COD and ASW). Better now? :wink:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post23 Aug 2021, 19:47

That would be a better theoretical path perhaps (an E-2 that does everything). However work is underway for a replacement to E-2 family is underway IIRC? I suppose every USN aircraft is being replaced at some future time though.
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Unread post24 Aug 2021, 04:29

As soon as I read the former C-2 COD driver state in the Rogoway article on The Drive that the C-2 could NOT carry the F135 engine, everything made sense to me, and I stopped considering the C-2 as viable moving forward. Evidently the CMV-22B has enough legs to make the Navy happy, so be it. Also, the S-3B could apparently not swallow an F135 either, so it's out.

If you want to wave your magic wand and re-incarnate the C-2 by re-designing the fuselage to swallow an F135, to re-engine it for more kiddy-up... well, good luck with that. These sorts of "it would be really easy to..." re-designs have a way of snow balling.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post24 Aug 2021, 16:01

steve2267 wrote:If you want to wave your magic wand and re-incarnate the C-2 by re-designing the fuselage to swallow an F135, to re-engine it for more kiddy-up... well, good luck with that. These sorts of "it would be really easy to..." re-designs have a way of snow balling.


It wouldn't be easy (never said otherwise) and yes it would be kinda of a new development since it would be kinda of a new aircraft (albeit starting from a common airframe - akin to the Super Hornet compared to the legacy Hornet) and thus with its risks and costs but guess what?? So is the MQ-25 which is a completely new design!
But at least this redesigned C-2/E-2 would be able to perform all support roles (COD, Tanker and ASW) while the MQ-25 can only perform one (Tanker).
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post24 Aug 2021, 16:53

Shirley this thread (& the orphan other) have info about the planned OTHER roles for MQ-25A with likely more in future?
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Unread post14 Sep 2021, 20:06

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Unread post14 Sep 2021, 20:50

MQ-25A Refuels F-35C Joint Strike Fighter Over Illinois [USNI news have got to be Fwits for LIGHTING]
14 Sep 2021 Sam LaGrone

"The Boeing prototype MQ-25A T1 unmanned carrier tanker refueled an F-35C Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter as part of early testing for the program, Naval Air Systems Command announced on Tuesday. The F-35C, assigned to the “Salty Dogs” of Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23, and the MQ-25 flew from MidAmerica Airport in Mascoutah, Ill., near Boeing’s facility in St. Louis for the test flights.

The fighter and the “Stingray” prototype drone tanker “performed formation evaluations, wake surveys, drogue tracking and plugged with the MQ-25 test asset at 225 knots calibrated airspeed (KCAS) and altitude of 10,000 feet. From the ground control station, an air vehicle operator then initiated the fuel transfer from T1’s aerial refueling store to the F-35C,” according to a statement from NAVAIR....

...“Following this flight, T1 will enter into a modification period to integrate the deck handling system in preparation for a shipboard demonstration this winter. To date, T1 has conducted 36 flights, providing the program with valuable information on aerodynamics, propulsion, guidance and control in advance of the MQ-25 engineering and manufacturing development aircraft deliveries,” NAVAIR said. “As unmanned tanking capacity increases, the manned tanker requirement decreases, promoting additional service life and capacity available for manned strike-fighter missions.”..."

Photo: "An MQ-25 test asset, known as T1, conducts its first aerial refueling test flight with an F-35C Lightning II Sept. 13, 2021 near MidAmerica St. Louis Airport in Mascoutah, Illinois. Boeing Photo" https://news.usni.org/wp-content/upload ... e_res.jpeg (0.6Mb)


Source: https://news.usni.org/2021/09/14/mq-25a ... r-illinois
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Unread post14 Sep 2021, 21:06

Same story without any LIGHTINGS from NavAir and with more detail - USNI News needs to get a PPOORRFF reader. NO???
MQ-25 conducts first air-to-air refueling with F-35C
14 Sep 2021 NavAirSysCom

"...The integrated Navy and Boeing MQ-25 team, in coordination with the F-35 program, conducted the refueling flight Sept. 13 near MidAmerica St. Louis Airport in Mascoutah, Illinois....

...This event marked the third refueling flight for the T1 test aircraft. During the three-hour flight, a Navy F-35C pilot from Air Test Wing and Evaluation Squadron Two Three (VX-23) approached T1, performed formation evaluations, wake surveys, drogue tracking and plugged with the MQ-25 test asset at 225 knots calibrated airspeed (KCAS) and altitude of 10,000 feet. From the ground control station, an air vehicle operator then initiated the fuel transfer from T1’s aerial refueling store to the F-35C.

Once operational, MQ-25 will refuel every receiver-capable carrier-based aircraft. Each unique aircraft platform will have a different aerodynamic interaction in the wake of MQ-25. Conducting refueling test missions with various aircraft allows the program to analyze data and determine if any adjustments to guidance and control are required.

Earlier this summer, the program completed unmanned refueling missions with an F/A-18 Super Hornet and E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. Each aircraft platform is aerodynamically unique so how they respond in the wake of a tanker is different. Flying different aircraft behind the MQ-25 lets us assess how they will interact, Reed said...."

Photo: “The F-35C Lightning II is refueled by the MQ-25 test asset as an F/A-18 chase aircraft hovers nearby during a test flight Sept. 13 near MidAmerica St. Louis Airport in Mascoutah, Illinois. (Photo courtesy of Boeing)” https://www.navair.navy.mil/sites/g/fil ... 281%29.jpg (0.7Mb)


Source: https://www.navair.navy.mil/news/MQ-25- ... 32021-1531 [/quote]
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steve2267

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Unread post14 Sep 2021, 22:01

Boing is at it again. Now they have a VTOL F/A-18 that hovers.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post15 Sep 2021, 01:14

Sorry I tried posting the link but my browser kept crashing.
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Unread post15 Sep 2021, 01:33

A PREVIOUS twist [see embedded links] so to speak in the same story as above:
US Navy, Boeing conduct first-ever refueling between unmanned tanker, F-35C
15 Sep 2021 Megan Eckstein

"...Last month, the Navy and Boeing conducted in a virtual environment the first manned-unmanned teaming event between the Stingray and a Super Hornet, where the manned jet bypassed the ground control station and communicated directly with the tanker drone to give directions on where and when to rendezvous for a refueling. [ https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... 25-tanker/ ] & viewtopic.php?f=55&t=20468&p=457822&hilit=teaming#p457822

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday said last week at the Defense News Conference these tests are “really our first foray into the carrier air wing of the future, understanding how we integrate it and how we leverage it, how we’re going to use unmanned and manned together in a way that’s going to be quite effective. "

“We’re learning a lot as we use the MQ-25 off the carrier decks in terms of employing unmanned air into a wing. That’s given us greater insights with respect to the direction we have to move with the air wing of the future,” he added.

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/ ... ker-f-35c/
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