F-35 and X-47B

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 07:39

Some history of the current MQ-25A over the last LONG five years with many changes about role and the freakin' NAME.
An ADMIRABLE USN said: "...“It has to be more refueling, a little bit of ISR, weapons later and focus on its ability to be the flying truck.”...." https://news.usni.org/2016/07/15/offici ... arrier-uav 15 Jul 2016


UPDATE to TEXT in this already posted article: https://news.usni.org/2021/06/07/mq-25a ... more-86445
"...“We will take T1 aboard the flight deck of a carrier in port and test out another vital part of our program. That’s the deck control device.” Later this year, T1 will be taken aboard an in-port carrier in Norfolk to test the control scheme for basic deck handling for aircraft.

The Navy will also continue to refine the ground control station for MQ-25A. The service has shelved the station it’s developed in favor of a Lockheed Martin control station that could control more systems than just Stingray. “The Navy still has the vision of moving towards common control standards and systems. This ground control station does provide us the flexibility to, in theory, control other assets in the future. It won’t be able to do it on day one, but we at least have an architecture now that supports that future growth,” Reed [Navy unmanned carrier aviation program manager Capt. Chad Reed] told USNI News.

The Navy plans to declare an initial operating capability (IOC) for MQ-25A by 2025."
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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 08:15

zhangmdev wrote:Boeing render shows some electro-optical sensor turret under the nose.

Any chance you have a render to render? Or are you mistakenly referring to the deck control mechanisms on the MQ-25A? There should be info about this in this thread.... viewtopic.php?f=55&t=20468&p=390355&hilit=control+deck#p390355
on page 64 "...the camera is being used to collect data during testing and does not feature in the actual MQ-25 design. The final versions will, however, carry an electro-optical sensor...." http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing- ... 5-stingray
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zhangmdev

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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 08:31

That sensor turret isn't installed on the T1
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mq-25 turret
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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 08:36

OK thanks. Do you have a link to the page with the RENDer or a direct link to the render please? TAH.
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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 08:49

I don't know, feel like that is a snapshot from some PR video from Boeing

https://militaryleak.com/2018/09/15/boe ... refuelers/

https://www.govconwire.com/2018/07/vide ... -aviation/

https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event= ... MxMjM0Nzgz

The attached image can be found at

https://www.boeing.com/defense/mq25/

So it isn't some fan fiction.
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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 09:00

OK thanks I'll check it all out later (my interest). Meanwhile on page 76 this thread was a story about VENUS [the savage]:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=20468&p=446190&hilit=venus#p446190
Developing The MQ-25’s Ground Control Station Means Thinking Like A Mission Commander - Not A Pilot
12 Jan 2021 Eric Tegler [LONG DETAILED ARTICLE BEST READ AT SOURCE]

"While discussing the MQ-25, U.S. Navy Lieutenant Venus Savage offers a casually overlooked truth about the new unmanned aerial refueling tanker that the service is developing in conjunction with Boeing BA to refuel its Super Hornets, F-35s and E-2 Hawkeyes. “Because the AVO [air vehicle operator] doesn’t fly the [MQ-25] in the direct sense a pilot flies a manned aircraft, disorientation is less of a concern than information overload.”

Lt. Savage is assistant operational test director for the MQ-25 with VX-1, the Navy’s operational test squadron. She’s part of a team who are co-developing the ground control station (GCS) that AVOs on aircraft carriers and at shore sites will use to direct MQ-25s to takeoff, land, and refuel tactical aircraft.

While disorientation may be a minor concern for future MQ-25 AVOs, it’s probably a familiar feeling for the Navy test team working on the GCS interface. That team is comprised of pilots and naval flight officers like Savage. The folks who eventually operate the tanker won’t be either of these things.

Instead, they’ll be a new breed of non-pilot, specialist warrant officers with their own career track. In December, the Navy announced it will train approximately 450 warrant officers in the new AVO role over the next six to 10 years....

...“The display differs from a manned cockpit in that there is no image displayed of the world outside of the AV,” Lt. Savage says. “There are readouts of many of the air vehicle [AV] systems for the AVO’s reference, including a map and a primary flight display, but because the AVO is never intended to directly input singular controls to the AV, combined with the expected signal delay, this is omitted, making it distinct from a manned aircraft’s displays or view.”

Traditional aerial refueling requires precise maneuvering between two aircraft with a clear visual element for the tanker as well as the receiver. But Stingray AVOs will simply oversee join-up, contact, and refueling - not control it. According to Lt. Savage, AVOs will input large scale commands such as a flight path or holding pattern, an altitude or direction change while running concurrent systems like the Stingray’s fuel pod or landing gear. “The logic within the aircraft will resolve [these] requests as compatible with its current phase of flight,” she says....

...While the Stingray is expected to seamlessly slot into operations on a carrier deck and in the air, its autonomous decision-making and loose AVO guidance mean that the aircraft will need a new set of rules for safe operation known as NATOPS (Naval Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardization). But MQ-25 NATOPS will likely have to wait until there’s an actual MQ-25 EDM (Engineering Development Model) delivered later this year.

At Boeing, Lt. Savage sat in as the “AVO3” - an observer and flight test backup to the pilot in command during a T1 test flight. She has no previous experience in a tanker or receiver aircraft and “minimal” experience with other remote-pilot vehicle stations. Other team members have Super Hornet tanker and receiver experience and E-2 backgrounds....

...While the Navy and Boeing may want a GCS interface that avoids similarity to an aircraft cockpit, they may not mind one that bears resemblance to a shipboard fighter controller (air traffic control) station or an E-2 Hawkeye Combat Information Center Officer’s (CICO) station....

...It’s only the start of their work. Perfecting operational unmanned aerial refueling will take years, not to mention perfecting the Stingray’s potential combat capabilities." [USN NavAv is ALWAYS PERFECTING - never ceases to perfect]

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler ... t-a-pilot/
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Unread post08 Jun 2021, 09:10

Another story about first ARF 'hookup' with intimate details (of the Air ReFuelling kind)

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/ ... ed-tanker/
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Unread post09 Jun 2021, 06:15

What's the RCS figures of the StungBy when it's mating in the sky? Of the hose & reel? Of the receiver aircraft with its probiscus flapping in the breeze?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post09 Jun 2021, 06:37

steve2267 wrote:What's the RCS figures of the StungBy when it's mating in the sky? Of the hose & reel? Of the receiver aircraft with its probiscus flapping in the breeze?



Clearly, much higher than when not refueling mid air. Yet, that hardly means the Stingrays RCS doesn't matter.... :|
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Unread post10 Jun 2021, 01:50

Corsair1963 wrote:
Clearly, much higher than when not refueling mid air. Yet, that hardly means the Stingrays RCS doesn't matter.... :|


Perhaps it does. Why bother spending $$$ on lowering the RCS of an unmanned vehicle if you cannot refuel in that VLO configuration?

Kind of like why bother spending all sorts of $$$ re-inventing the drogue deployment mechanism on a new, untried design when you could just use an existing, proven pod design.

Seems to me the USN is actually being somewhat prudent for a change. Shocking I know.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post10 Jun 2021, 05:10

I wondered about the "325 lbs of fuel transferred"[given tank PERHAPS only carried 300 lbs?] so here is the story....
US Navy plans Stingray carrier deck tests in 2021 following milestone fuel transfer
08 Jun 2021 Pat Host

"...Dave Bujold, Boeing MQ-25A programme director, told reporters on 7 June that the Stingray T1 test asset flew for 4.5 hours on 4 June. Of the 500lb of fuel available in the MQ-25A T1 test asset, 325 lb was transferred, which Bujold said was according to plan. The 325 lb of fuel transferred also tested the low fuel indicator on the Stingray's pod.

The refuelling test started with the MQ-25A T1 test asset taking off, followed by a F/A-18 from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron Two Three (VX-23), which was flown by two operational USN test pilots. Their objective for the mission, Bujold said, was to evaluate how stable the Super Hornet would be flying near the UAV and to view the stability of the air refuelling store and the basket."

Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... l-transfer
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Unread post16 Jun 2021, 17:22

Navy Weighing How to Include More Capabilities on MQ-25A Beyond Tanking
15 Jun 2021 Sam LaGrone

"Lawmakers are asking the Navy to start adding capabilities to the emerging MQ-25A Stingray unmanned carrier tankers that are set to join the fleet in the next few years, service officials said.... in the air, they’re probably more confident because of what we’ve done as a nation in the last 20 years. I get pressurized about, ‘When are you going to drop bombs from the MQ-25? When are you going to use it as a sensor?’” [Vice Adm. Jim Kilby (OPNAV N9) said]

Kilby said a major hurdle to expanding the roles and responsibilities for the MQ-25A would be to sort out how the aircraft – with a wingspan ten feet wider than a F/A-18E/F Super Hornet – would integrate aboard an aircraft carrier.

“There is a vexing part of the integration of an unmanned aircraft into the air wing. That’s a dance that requires a lot of people doing the right thing at the right time over and over and over again without communicating with each other because they just know their job and we’re introducing this big, unmanned thing into this dance. I got to have that down,” he said.

For Kilby, the benefit of unmanned systems is not only to save wear and tear on manned platforms like the Super Hornets, currently responsible for refueling the air wing, but also pushing beyond the limits of a human crew....

...Service leaders have said they envision an air wing that could be more than half unmanned starting in the 2030s.

“We do have a sense of urgency but we’re also trying to be very deliberate because what we don’t want to do is make rash decisions on buying things in great numbers that aren’t necessarily going to serve us well, you know, a decade or more from now when we – when we have them in greater quantities,” Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday said in April.

The Pentagon in 2016 retooled a Navy program that would have created an unmanned carrier surveillance and light aircraft in favor of developing the MQ-25A unmanned tanker...."

Source: https://news.usni.org/2021/06/15/navy-w ... nd-tanking
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Unread post17 Jun 2021, 00:26

Maybe they should build some so we can build a little operations history with them?

Looks like a cart before the horse RFP...
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Unread post17 Jun 2021, 23:56

I wonder if they could put one refueling pod on one wing and a rail with 2 AIM-120's on the other wing. They could be guided by data from the F-35's?
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Unread post19 Jun 2021, 08:28

glennwhitten wrote:I wonder if they could put one refueling pod on one wing and a rail with 2 AIM-120's on the other wing. They could be guided by data from the F-35's?

Not sure this would be a sensible mix. Better have a dedicated remote weapon carrier for that, I think (which could be based on the same platform, anyway).
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