F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 20:59

Casey wrote:Actually my sources are within USAF/USN!
Really.... :roll:

Considering your quote came straight from that THOROUGHLY debunked RAND backup slide and all the blogs that bowed at it's feet, I have to wonder at the truth in that statement vs all the documentation and interviews given by people who have ACTUALLY flown the F-35 from something other than their armchairs.
Last edited by SpudmanWP on 07 Nov 2008, 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
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f-15eagle

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 21:08

Casey wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:

..........and what information do you have to support such a claim??? As a matter of fact the only information. That I've heard of regarding climb performance for the F-35. Is from test pilots that have stated of the shear power and how its chase aircraft (F-16's & F/A-18's) have had a hard time keeping up!!! :twisted:


Actually my sources are within USAF/USN!


Bullshit your just making that up because you can't make any good arguments. Especially when all air force and navy documents say the F-35 is better than current fighters. If I were you I would lay off the drugs.
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Casey

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 21:35

SpudmanWP wrote:
Casey wrote:Actually my sources are within USAF/USN!
Really.... :roll:

Considering your quote came straight from that THOROUGHLY debunked RAND backup slide and all the blogs that bowed at it's feet, I have to wonder at the truth in that statement vs all the documentation and interviews given by people who have ACTUALLY flown the F-35 from something other than their armchairs.


Did I really mention Rand at all?
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einstein

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 21:38

I´m a retired hydraulic type used to millisecond fast servovalve controls as in Gripen, F-16 etc
However, the conventional fast controls in X-32 were changed to Electro Hydrostatic Actuators in F-35, a package with an electric motor driven pump

My point is that efficiency for a motor is about 90%, for a pump also about 90%
Working together efficiency will be 0,9x0,9 = 0,81 i.e about 80%

20% of the considerable input effect will be heat, then comes further heat losses in hydr valves etc

Problem is this heat can´t be circulated to a fuel cooler as in a conventional central
hydraulic system and to me it means:

The EHA´s will fast be overheated if operated as in a fighter
and respons at starting the motor will be slöwer than for a conventional servo valve
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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 21:46

einstein wrote:The EHA´s will fast be overheated if operated as in a fighter
Oh please, you betray your namesake by making such a statement while having absolutely NOTHING to back it up.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 21:54

Casey wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:
Casey wrote:Actually my sources are within USAF/USN!
Really.... :roll:

Considering your quote came straight from that THOROUGHLY debunked RAND backup slide and all the blogs that bowed at it's feet, I have to wonder at the truth in that statement vs all the documentation and interviews given by people who have ACTUALLY flown the F-35 from something other than their armchairs.


Did I really mention Rand at all?
Sorry... Fat finger. Not RAND.

Why pick on one word? Why not answer the question?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 22:16

Casey wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:

..........and what information do you have to support such a claim??? As a matter of fact the only information. That I've heard of regarding climb performance for the F-35. Is from test pilots that have stated of the shear power and how its chase aircraft (F-16's & F/A-18's) have had a hard time keeping up!!! :twisted:


Actually my sources are within USAF/USN!




Would you care to elaborate??? Regardless, I doubt your sources are anyway associated directly with the JSF Program. :?
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einstein

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 22:18

SpudmanWP wrote:
einstein wrote:The EHA´s will fast be overheated if operated as in a fighter
Oh please, you betray your namesake by making such a statement while having absolutely NOTHING to back it up.


It´s just basic, you have a heat loss and have to cool it in some way
(36 years with aircraft hydraulics)

or take it easy, to avoid that heat loss
Last edited by einstein on 07 Nov 2008, 22:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Casey

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 22:18

SpudmanWP wrote:
Casey wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:
Casey wrote:Actually my sources are within USAF/USN!
Really.... :roll:

Considering your quote came straight from that THOROUGHLY debunked RAND backup slide and all the blogs that bowed at it's feet, I have to wonder at the truth in that statement vs all the documentation and interviews given by people who have ACTUALLY flown the F-35 from something other than their armchairs.


Did I really mention Rand at all?
Sorry... Fat finger. Not RAND.

Why pick on one word? Why not answer the question?


1. What question?
2. Do you have a history of attacking persons instead of debating the case?
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 22:58

Casey wrote:1. What question?
My implied, and other's, question is that you back up such an statement with CREDIBLE sources.

Casey wrote:2. Do you have a history of attacking persons instead of debating the case?
I think you have me confused with someone else. If you have read my posts, I take a lot of time searching the net for CREDIBLE sources for what I say and I provide those links for other to read.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post07 Nov 2008, 23:25

SpudmanWP wrote:
Casey wrote:Did I really mention Rand at all?
Sorry... Fat finger. Not RAND.
I hereby retract my retraction :)

It was a RAND study, weather you said it or not.

The study is downloadable here and there is an article from Flightglobal where RAND says the following:
Rand has disavowed the critical remarks about the F-35 as not intended for public release and, unlike the main presentation, not peer-reviewed. Additionally, Rand says: "Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from Rand were involved. Those reports are not accurate. Rand did not present any analysis at the wargame relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat. Neither the game nor the assessments by Rand in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft."
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post08 Nov 2008, 01:05

rapier01 just posted a link to a great interview with the first pilot of the F-35..if you [wink]choose[/wink] to believe him.
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Unread post08 Nov 2008, 01:19

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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Nov 2008, 01:52

SpudmanWP wrote:rapier01 just posted a link to a great interview with the first pilot of the F-35..if you [wink]choose[/wink] to believe him.



Excellent read..............Great insight from a test pilot involved in both the F-22 and F-35 Programs. Just think of a Hi/Low Mix of Raptors and Lightnings! :wink:
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Unread post08 Nov 2008, 02:38

einstein is right
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