F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post14 Mar 2021, 05:05

Is he saying the F-35 will kill the Gripen 16:1? Because that's probably a low ratio.
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Unread post14 Mar 2021, 11:13

I'm afraid not. English may not be the first language. I read it as a gripen loss of 1 to the f-35 16. It's not all bad news, because when the f-35 gets a peer data link. The f-35 will do a lot better at 16 f-35 for 2 gripen. As Sweetman said, the gripen is 6th gen.

drpepper wrote:
F-35A 1vs1 Sure . Gripen 2vs2 or more F-35A 16:1 for Gripen until the day s working data link system that come close to Gripens. it you will maybe advance to 16:2
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Unread post14 Mar 2021, 14:43

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Is he saying the F-35 will kill the Gripen 16:1? Because that's probably a low ratio.


While I agree with optimist that his English doesn't seem to be that good, he (or she?) seems to be clearly stating that the F-35 would lose 16:1 against the Gripen because he's assuming that the Gripen datalink is superior to the F-35's datalink and at the same time claiming that when the F-35 gets fixed (another HUGE LOL on this one) that the win rate would become 16:2 :doh: :doh: :doh:
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Unread post14 Mar 2021, 19:10

drpepper wrote:F-35A 1vs1 Sure . Gripen 2vs2 or more F-35A 16:1 for Gripen until the day s working data link system that come close to Gripens. it you will maybe advance to 16:2.

It doesn't matter whether it's 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, etc....., the Gripen is going to lose badly against F-35s. There isn't a metric where the Gripen even enjoys parity, much less superiority, against the F-35. Of the western 4.5 generation jets, the Gripen is the least capable.
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Unread post14 Mar 2021, 19:28

The only way that post makes sense is if the poster is arguing that while all other jets lose to the F-35 20-1 or 30-0... Gripen will only lose 16 to 1 and, just wait until the Gripen-E gets a working 2way data link, then it will only lose 16-2 against the F-35.

But the grammar is so poor that it reads the opposite.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post14 Mar 2021, 20:09

:doh: That's the way it GROKs to me also but as said "the guy needs GRAMMERli!" :devil: [swiss-german petite grammer app] :mrgreen:
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Unread post15 Mar 2021, 13:11

drpepper wrote:F-35A 1vs1 Sure . Gripen 2vs2 or more F-35A 16:1 for Gripen until the day s working data link system that come close to Gripens. it you will maybe advance to 16:2.


Gripen E is not even in service, and won't be fully operational until 2026 at the earliest :mrgreen: FFS talk about "working" :roll:
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Unread post15 Mar 2021, 16:33

XanderCrews wrote:
drpepper wrote:F-35A 1vs1 Sure . Gripen 2vs2 or more F-35A 16:1 for Gripen until the day s working data link system that come close to Gripens. it you will maybe advance to 16:2.


Gripen E is not even in service, and won't be fully operational until 2026 at the earliest :mrgreen: FFS talk about "working" :roll:

Hey, they've tested the BK-27 Mauser at least :devil:
https://twitter.com/SaabFI/status/1371449052294963201
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Unread post21 Mar 2021, 06:56

A few more ODD Gripping Stories found so they will be posted as is when as they can be founded agin. HOKAY?
Czeching in the Czech Air Force [8 page PDF attached]
Sep 2020 Alan Warnes

"Earlier this year, the Czech Republic celebrated 21 years as a NATO member. Alan Warnes delves into its military aircraft capabilities – and finds a nation punching above its weight...."

...Air defence
For air defence duties, 211 Sqn operates 14 Gripens (12 single-seater JAS-39Cs and two dual-seat JAS- 39Ds). Two pairs of aircraft man the QRA at Čáslav Air Base armed with two infrared AIM-9M Sidewinders and Mauser BK-27 guns. One of each pair is always fitted with a Litening IV laser designation pod (LDP) for long-range air-to-air detection. They can also be equipped with the AIM120C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), but these are generally for overseas deployments. The unit has deployed three times to Keflavík for the Iceland Air Patrol, officially known as the Airborne Surveillance and Interception Capabilities to meet Iceland’s Peacetime Preparedness (ASICIPPN). The three Baltic Air Patrol (BAP) deployments in 2009 and 2012 saw the jets based at Šiauliai, Lithuania, but last year from September 1 to December 31 they resided at Ämari, Estonia. During the most recent BAP deployment they were equipped with the Litening LDP, which became part of the Gripen’s Mission System (MS) 20 enhancement in 2017. Commander Hromek, who has been in charge since May 1, 2018, told AFM that MS 20 had been well received: “We are now operating with Litening pods, Have-Quick radios and Link 16, and night-vision goggles (NVG) were introduced in early 2020.”

Today, the Link 16 and NVGs are part of the CzAF Gripen make-up. Lt Col Pavel ‘Speedy’ Pavlík, the Čáslav operations officer who led the recent detachment to Ämari, said the Gripens flew 429 missions there, which included 13 Alpha scrambles: “We saw Su-27/30 Flankers and Su-34 Fullbacks, some armed, some were not, and there was a lot of transport aircraft like An-26 (Curl) and An-30 (Cline) making the transit to Kaliningrad. We had two LDPs so we didn’t have to get so close to the targets; we usually flew about 200m (500ft) away from the aircraft and slewed the LDP on to the target. It wasn’t necessary to get nice handheld pics, but we did have a handheld camera for the intel report.”

The LDPs were also used at night – although the pilots couldn’t read numbers. The Combined Air Operations Centre (CAOC) advised the Czech detachment that safety was paramount and an already tense situation should not escalate. ‘Speedy’ continued: “All they wanted was us to track the aircraft, make the interception, take a pic and then fly away. The Russians were always professional with no provocations. Often there were Finnish or Swedish aircraft coming too.”

As well as the BAP, there was also a QRA being manned at Čáslav. Having just 14 jets was quite a burden – five deployed to Estonia, four at Čáslav, and two on overhaul meant the Gripen fleet was stretched. “There had to be a lot of planning and co-ordination,” ‘Speedy’ told AFM. “A four-month deployment is just enough for these missions. Eight months or a year would have been different. We obviously would like more aircraft, but let’s see how the budgets work out.” In 2002, the CzAF requested 24 Gripens, but this was rejected by the government. Instead, 14 Gripens were acquired in 2004 under a 10-year lease, which in May 2014 was extended until 2027 with an option for two additional years. Commander Hromek has set up an office to evaluate a Gripen C/D replacement. “It is important we start looking at all eventualities to start evaluating the options by late 2020 or early 2021,” he said.

Air-to-air refuelling
One of the biggest headaches for the CzAF Gripen fleet is training in the air-to-air refuelling (AAR) mission. With no tanker, it is reliant on other NATO air forces to assist but is busy keeping its own pilots current. Last year, AAR training with a Nebraska ANG KC-135R and a Swedish Air Force C-130H refueller (84002/’842’) were both cancelled. But as Lt Col Pavlík explained, when the JAS 39C Gripens deployed on Exercise Nordic Fires to Luleå in northern Sweden during April 2019, two pilots gained their AAR currency with the Swedish Air Force C-130H tanker. Commander Hromek added: “It has been frustrating, but we are hoping that signing up to the MMF [Multinational MultiRole Tanker Transport Fleet] in October [last year] will help.”

As part of the agreement, signed on October 24, the CzAF will fly 100 hours on NATO’s eight-strong A330 MultiRole Tanker Transport (MRTT) fleet, which was set to start operations mid-2020. Hromek continued: “We plan to use the aircraft for transport as well as air-to-air refuelling, which will benefit the Gripen fleet’s capabilities.” The NSPA’s (NATO Support and Procurement Agency) MMF System manager, Jan der Kinderen, confirmed to AFM in March that the Gripens were to be a top priority for AAR clearance after the A330 MRTTs began being delivered in early May and June – those dates depending on the effect of the coronavirus. “We will take responsibility in getting the receiver clearance, and of course the CzAF will play an important role in assisting us with getting data from Saab and providing Gripens for the clearance flights if needed,” he said. Commander Hromek is also looking at other options: “I have been discussing with the German Air Force commander the prospect of Gripens working with AAR equipped A400Ms. There is some way to go yet, because the Gripen has to be certified as an A400M receiver, but I’m positive it will happen.”

ALCAs
The Gripens at Čáslav are augmented by 212 Squadron L-159 Advanced Light Combat Aircraft (ALCAs). Lt Col Denis ‘Dubra’ Dúbravčík, the 212 commander since August 1, 2018, has flown more than 800 hours on L-159s and recently told AFM: “Our main role is close air support [CAS], so we train regularly with Czech and coalition JTACs [Joint Terminal Air Controllers] and work with the air-to-ground ops school (AGOPS) at Ramstein Air Base in Germany.”..."

Photos: "A JAS 39C taxies out at Čáslav bound for Amari, Estonia, on August 30, 2019. Note the aircraft is fitted with four AIM-120C5s and two AIM-9M Sidewinders – an atypical configuration for the Gripen. (It was easier and safer to fly them to Estonia for Baltic Air Policing duties than transporting them by road.) Alan Warnes [WUT?!]
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One of the biggest issues for the Gripen fleet is ensuring all the operational pilots are qualified for air-to-air refuelling. In April last year, two Gripen pilots gained their AAR currency working with a Swedish Air Force C-130H tanker during the deployment to Luleå in northern Sweden for Exercise Nordic Fires. Bjorn Ruden"


Source: AirForces Monthly September 2020 Issue 390
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Gripen Czech AF AirForces Monthly Sep 2020 pp8.pdf
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Unread post21 Mar 2021, 08:23

Pushing the limits Swedish style [6 page PDF attached]
Jun 2020 Thomas Newdick

"The Swedish Defence Materiel Administration ensures the country’s armed forces have the equipment they need to execute their mission. Thomas Newdick investigates how its Flight Test Centre handles trials of airborne systems and makes use of the unique range at Vidsel, within the Arctic Circle.

...Meteor at Vidsel
The Vidsel Test Range played an important role in the effort to field the Meteor BVRAAM, with development and integration firings conducted at the range using Gripen fighters. In January 2006 a range work-up was conducted at Vidsel. This verified system communications and the set-up between the aircraft and the test range in advance of the first firing. The initial air launch demonstration (ALD) firing took place in May 2006 from a Gripen flying at an altitude of 22,966ft (7,000m).

The first trial of a flight-standard functional seeker was carried out in June 2006, with a seeker data gathering (SDG) missile carried under the wing of a Gripen. The SDG missile has no propulsion section or warhead but contains operational missile subsystems and telemetry equipment. This test allowed data to be gathered over a variety of different flight conditions. Finally, in 2010, a first Meteor live-firing was conducted within the Swedish integration programme...."

Photos: "The first Gripen E prototype, aircraft 39-8, carries a pair of Meteor BVRAAMs below the wings. Saab"
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"A Hungarian Air Force Gripen takes part in a live-firing exercise at Vidsel in 2015. Hungarian jets were back at Vidsel in 2018, practising with live AIM-9L Sidewinder and AGM-65 Maverick missiles, as well as GBU-12 laser-guided and Mk82 dumb bombs and 27mm cannon ammunition."


Source: AirForces Monthly June 2020 Issue 387
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Sweden Testing + Gripens AirForcesMonthly Jun 2020 pp6.pdf
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Unread post21 Mar 2021, 14:00

Gripen E The Story So Far [4 page PDF attached]
Nov 2017 Jerry Gunner

"Saab’s contender for the title ‘European Fighter of Choice’ has been flying for a little over six months. Jerry Gunner spoke to the Swedish company’s chief test pilot, Hans Einerth, to find out how the test programme is progressing...."

Source: AIR International November 2017
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GRIPEN E AIR International Nov 2017 pp4.pdf
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Unread post30 Mar 2021, 21:03

Saab trials 3D-printed battle damage repair for Gripen
30 Mar 2021 Gareth Jennings

"Saab has trialled battle damage repair of its Gripen combat aircraft using 3D-printed parts, the Swedish manufacturer announced on 30 March. A 3D-printed panel hatch was created and fitted to a Gripen D testbed, with a 30-minute test then flown over Saab’s Linköping facility in southern Sweden on 19 March. While 3D-printed parts have been flown internally, and included in the Gripen E, this test marked the first flight of an external section of the aircraft.

“A Gripen was fitted with a hatch that had been 3D printed using additive manufacturing, using a nylon polymer called PA2200. The spare part passed the test with flying colours,” Saab said in a statement. As noted by the company, as there was no 3D computer model of the hatch, the original was first removed from the aircraft and scanned.

“This work is a step towards 3D-printed spares being used for rapid repairs to fighter aircraft that have sustained damage while deployed on remote operations, thereby gaining a vital time-saving advantage,” Saab said.

According to support contract manager for Gripen C/D Håkan Stake, who has also been managing the development project, this process reduces the operational time lost in repairs and means that other jets do not have to be cannibalised for parts. [why not have spare parts available?] Göran Backlund, chief technology officer, Business Area Dynamics and chair of the Saab Additive Manufacturing Group, told Janes."

Photo: "The bright silver panel that was 3D printed can be seen attached to the aft section of the Gripen D testbed during its first flight earlier in March. (Saab)" https://www.janes.com/images/default-so ... -11335.jpg


Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... for-gripen
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Unread post31 Mar 2021, 18:20

Anuvver OLDie but GOLDie? from 2012 - 8 page PDF attached.
A Family Affair - Exercise Lion Effort 2012
Jun 2012 Ian Harding

"Ian Harding reports from Ronneby on Exercise Lion Effort 2012, the first such event attended by all operators of the Saab JAS 39 Gripen..."

Source: AIR International Magazine June 2012 Vol.82 No.6
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GRIPEN Lion Effort Air International Jun 2012 pp8.pdf
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Unread post03 Apr 2021, 11:14

6 page PDF of article from 2012 attached from AIR International Magazine DECEMBER 2012 Vol.83 No.6
FLYING HIGH
Dec 2012 Guy Martin

"With deliveries now complete, Guy Martin gives an overview of the South African Air Force JAS 39 Gripen, the most advanced western fighter aircraft operating in the African continent...

...South Africa originally considered purchasing 38 Saab JAS 39 Gripens, but in November 1998 announced the procurement of 28 Gripens and 24 BAE Systems Hawk Mk120 lead-in fighter trainers, becoming the first export customer for the Gripen. The contract with South Africa was signed in December 1999 as part of the Strategic Defence Procurement Package (SDP), but in 2005 was revised to cover 17 single-seat Gripen Cs and nine two-seater Gripen Ds. The 28 Gripens and 24 Hawks were originally priced at a total of $2.2 billion (R17.8 billion at current exchange rates), but in 2007 it emerged the Hawks cost R7.2 billion and the Gripens R19.08 billion....

...Apart from the controversy around offsets, the Gripen deal has also been tainted by allegations of bribery. In June 2011 Saab announced that it had found evidence that BAE Systems had paid R24 million towards Sanip, which was then channelled to South African defence ministry consultant Fana Hlongwana as commission for helping secure the Gripen contract. (The Gripen was marketed by Gripen International, a joint venture set up by Saab and BAE Systems in 1995 – BAE Systems later bought 35% of Saab in 1998.) The Swedish company said news of the payment was hidden from it by its partner in the deal, as Sanip was run by BAE Systems on Saab’s behalf. BAE Systems in June 2011 sold the last of its shares in Saab, ending the 16-year relationship.

In October 2011 South African President Jacob Zuma appointed a commission of inquiry to investigate allegations of wrongdoing in the Strategic Defence Procurement Package. The commission is expected to complete its work within two years. Later this year South African investigators will travel to Sweden to look into bribery claims...."

Source: AIR International Magazine DECEMBER 2012 Vol.83 No.6
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GRIPEN South Africa Air International Dec 2012 pp6.pdf
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Unread post03 Apr 2021, 15:01

spazsinbad wrote:6 page PDF of article from 2012 attached from AIR International Magazine DECEMBER 2012 Vol.83 No.6
FLYING HIGH
Dec 2012 Guy Martin

"With deliveries now complete, Guy Martin gives an overview of the South African Air Force JAS 39 Gripen, the most advanced western fighter aircraft operating in the African continent...


Again and as most things (if not everything) related to the Gripen nowadays, that would be false!

I would say that the distinction of "the most advanced western fighter aircraft operating in the African continent" goes to the Moroccan F-16 Block 52+ which will soon be updated to Block 70 (F-16V) and joined by new build F-16 Block 70s.

(and last time I checked, Morocco is still part of the African continent :wink: )


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