f-16adf wrote:
So basically with these linear or level horizontal Ps lines (in the 300-500KCAS region ((depending on altitude)), the Viper pilot can hold turn rate, while giving up speed to a point. This is technically the heart of the "plateau" right? Where as you really cannot do this with a jet that has a spike (ex. can't do this as easily with a 5K Tomcat chart since it has no linear Ps horizontal plateau (but a sharp spike, the negative Ps lines are all over the place))?
So I guess with the F-16, the AOA limiter is actually helping conserve energy to a point. Instead of blowing everything on a max lift pull and subsequent aero spikes??
While the Viper AoA limiter
helps conserve energy, it also prevents the Viper pilot from being able to cash in all his chips at once even if he really wanted to. The really good Hornet pilots are dangerous because they know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em -- they can conserve energy (to a point), and then when the situation is right, they can cash in that energy for nose pointing. (QS or anyone else, feel free to slam me if I'm wrong here.)
I suspect what makes the F-35 so special in the WVR arena, is because the pilot can choose to fly it like a Viper -- conserving energy / maximizing rate... but the option is always there to go big (alpha) and honk the nose around like a Hornet/Rhino if the situation calls for it. This makes sense to me as the F-35 airframe is so slick to begin with (low drag), and its got that big honking motor (lots of excess power) in the back that everyone raves about, and the wing loading is similar to a Viper with 50% gas (give or take). This is also probably why Billie Flynn made the statement claiming that if you overlay the F-35 E-M diagram on any 4th gen aircraft, the F-35 beats them all.
With that slick airframe, big honkin motor, and a CLAW to match, the F-35 pretty much lets the pilot do whatever he needs / wants. I go back to what an F-35 driver told me: (paraphrasing)
I can rate right along with a Viper -- a clean (airshow) F-16 Block 50 might outrate me by a bit -- but I have the AOA to out-radius him. A clean (airshow) F/A-18 might be able to outpoint me (barely), but I can out-rate him.With regard to E-M diagrams, because the F-35 can fly to 50° alpha, I suspect its E-M diagram is "very spikey"... but the Ps curves I bet are right there with the Viper in the 300-500 CAS. So a Lightning driver that backs off the alphey thingey (and maybe plugs the blower back in, maybe not) will drop back down to a G / rate / Ps curve very close to an F-16 Blk 50. FWIW. This too makes sense to me because it agrees with what
Dolbe Hanche said: he can slow down very quickly, be much more agressive (than he thought) in "diving in" (I took this to mean saddling up), but then the F-35 "sticks on like glue." So a Lightning driver might pull to 30-40° AoA (or whatever he needs -- more or less) to slow down, cut a tight radius, but then be able to let off the stick and he has the power to accelerate back up to his rate band (Berke seemed to indicate > 370kts). And he still has the J-turn / peddle turn in his bag of tricks. Or he can go vertical. It's all there. This is the picture forming in my mind and it very much agrees with "Cap" Gunn who said "without a doubt" when asked if the F-35 could win WVR.