JATM gets favourable mention for F-35

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wrightwing

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Unread post09 May 2022, 05:38

garrya wrote:Stephen Trimble were talking about the chart I posted

It doesn't sound like it based upon the other comments he made.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post09 May 2022, 05:46

wrightwing wrote:
disconnectedradical wrote:If the JATM is bigger diameter, this question is, will it fit into the F-35's internal AMRAAM pylon? Since it's next to the door, a bigger diameter missile might not have the clearance. The air-to-ground station will fit the JATM, but would it work with Sidekick? If not, this bring interesting questions on air-to-air load out. It's either 6x AMRAAM, or 2x AMRAAM and 2x JATM, and I guess it will depend on the mission.

Yes, and with the same capacity as AIM-120. (i.e. 6 AIM-260 with Sidekick.)

I’m not sure if that’s true unless the AIM-260 is same diameter as the AIM-120. The internal air-to-air pylon is next to the bay door and doesn’t have that much space.
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wrightwing

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Unread post09 May 2022, 07:27

disconnectedradical wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
disconnectedradical wrote:If the JATM is bigger diameter, this question is, will it fit into the F-35's internal AMRAAM pylon? Since it's next to the door, a bigger diameter missile might not have the clearance. The air-to-ground station will fit the JATM, but would it work with Sidekick? If not, this bring interesting questions on air-to-air load out. It's either 6x AMRAAM, or 2x AMRAAM and 2x JATM, and I guess it will depend on the mission.

Yes, and with the same capacity as AIM-120. (i.e. 6 AIM-260 with Sidekick.)

I’m not sure if that’s true unless the AIM-260 is same diameter as the AIM-120. The internal air-to-air pylon is next to the bay door and doesn’t have that much space.

The issue is the overall diameter, more than the missile diameter. It's been stated previously that the AIM-260 fits in the same form factor as the AIM-120.
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timmymagic

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Unread post09 May 2022, 09:50

b52buff wrote:I'm betting that it's range is greater than Meteor.


It's going to be interesting to see what they achieve. If its the same form factor as Meteor it will be hard to see how they could do it. No-one seems to be aware of any great leap in propulsion that could do it. 2 stage systems come with disadvantages. There was a reason why the competitors for the Meteor programme all went with air breathing ramjets after all. Right now I can't see it being anything other than a big revolution that is a surprise to everyone or some sort of compromise that leaves everyone a little underwhelmed.
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garrya

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Unread post09 May 2022, 11:39

timmymagic wrote:
b52buff wrote:I'm betting that it's range is greater than Meteor.


It's going to be interesting to see what they achieve. If its the same form factor as Meteor it will be hard to see how they could do it. No-one seems to be aware of any great leap in propulsion that could do it. 2 stage systems come with disadvantages. There was a reason why the competitors for the Meteor programme all went with air breathing ramjets after all. Right now I can't see it being anything other than a big revolution that is a surprise to everyone or some sort of compromise that leaves everyone a little underwhelmed.

TBH, I'm a bit disappointed that they simply goes with bigger diameter and not some unique form of propulsion. :(
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Unread post09 May 2022, 11:54

It's interesting that MICA NG is claimed by MBDA to have more than double the range (when ground-launched) of current MICA by having dual-thrust rocket motor and more propellant while retaining the same external dimensions to current MICA missile.

https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-rele ... ce-system/

The lower volume of electronic components will enable the MICA NG to carry a larger load of propellant, significantly extending its range, and the new dual-pulse rocket motor will provide additional energy to the missile at the end of its flight, improving its manoeuvrability and its ability to intercept targets at long range. In surface-to-air mode, the MICA NG will be able to intercept targets over 40 km away.


In air-to-air mode current MICA is said by official French sources to have 80-100 km range. So if AIM-120D has something like 160 km range, JATM will likely have really, really long range. But I think biggest difference will be if the target is fast and highly maneuverable. Then JATM will likely have far bigger difference compared to AIM-120 as it will have far more end-game energy and thus maneveuverability.
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madrat

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Unread post09 May 2022, 13:04

Think past the use as purely an AAM. A modular missile compatible to ESSM launchers, only offering 7 per VLS tube would be exciting to naval commanders. In its original AAM form it may offer army and marine commanders a mobile cold-fired pop-up missile off a flatbed (or the ground) from a networked pallet. Longer ranges would be offered by adding the booster. The booster could even be added to the AAM, because its designed to do so out of the box. These types of systems were not really a good match to AMRAAM without completely altering them into a non-standard form. The key would be standardization so that one missile could be used across the services and in multiple roles with minimal specialization. Initially expensive but well worth it after regular procurement draws down what it replaces.
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ricnunes

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Unread post09 May 2022, 13:21

Very interesting info hornetfinn :thumb:

Based on that I've read in the past and on your post, I believe that JATM could be a dual-stage missile. If the MICA NG could almost double the range (compared to MICA) by having a dual-thrust motor then I imagine that if JATM will be something similar to a dual-stage AMRAAM missile than the range would more than double.
Multi-stage rockets have a huge range advantage over single-stage ones since when you drop a stage the missile/rocket's mass will be much smaller and thus it will require much less energy to propel the remaining stage(s) at the same range or with the same energy the same remaining stage(s) will go further than faster.
It's no wonder why basically all space rockets are multi-stage!

As why so far no dual/multi-stage missiles have been developed so far, I would guess that developing such missiles is more complex (and thus more prone to problems) and likely more expensive. However, advancements in technology have likely minimized such drawbacks.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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