ricnunes wrote:element1loop wrote:hornetfinn wrote:JSM is similar, only with shorter range and lesser punch, but naturally in a lot smaller package which gives it many advantages especially in coastal warfare and for smaller platforms. And it still does have very good range and no ship wants to eat <100kg warhead which arrives with centimetric accuracy.
As you say, several per ship with sub-meter aiming makes warhead size less important, although LRASM was designed to kill 'Capital' ships. JSM is land-attack too, so a good complementary mix.
That's why I 'voted' on a thread started by eloise for a combination of 4 x LRAMS and 2 x JSM as the best against a Chinese Type 055 destroyer. Good luck for ANY warship to survive against 4 x LRAMS and 2 x JSM launched by a single F-35!
True, but even that could be a considerable overkill and missile waste, ric.
Russian CIWS derivations do not perform well against even slow drones (for the cannon) or against non-VLO cruise weapons for the SAM. Chinese DDG CIWS systems are unlikely to perform any better.
Plus LRASM is black for a reason (JSM will probably be same middle-grey as NSM). It's for a low optical signature at night, plus low thermal signature coating and materials, with a turbine-destroying power-dive from a cold dark sky with an air frame nearer to -40C (i.e. acting as a heat sink). Just small warmer leading edges and nose. It will probably reach Mach ~1.5 in a steep terminal power dive from cold air for about 10 seconds before the hit.
And no need for super-low and slow sea-skimming approaches and fuel wasting in warm air either. That tactic is only needed when they can readily detect the missile approach. This does not apply to LRASM and JSM, and its not clear at what radius it does matter. If they cruise in 12 km up and power dive they will also close the terminal distance much faster, once they do get to an initial detection radius. LRASM and JSM will close the distance much faster than a Harpoon sea-skimmer pop-up ever could. It's the terminal-phase speed that matters most, not the transonic cruise speed in cold air.
LRASM can come from anywhere in the hemisphere above the horizon. This makes it much harder to detect early, compared to just scanning the horizon (which they will still have to do, so this makes the challenge so much higher for a ship’s sensors). Much more dangerous than sea skimmers. And these 1,000 lb to 2,000 lb ASuW missiles with a terminal supersonic dive, will cut through thin ship skin and bulkhead to a location needed to make them unable to fight or to move, and probably not worth repairing either. If they power-dive to attack they will indeed be supersonic. That's the enhanced terminal maneuver, plus added energy for turns with engine pegged to the point of melting its turbine within a few more seconds.
And there's really no need to sink the ship. It maybe better to not sink it as long as the sensors and weapons are damaged or inoperable, and the ship can not be recovered. It doesn't matter if it remains afloat for several more days. A sniper shooting a soldier may prefer to injure, rather than kill. More resources needed for a ship dead in the water with no electricity, or secure comms. More distractions and psychological effects too.
And when their own navy doesn’t show up to rescue them after a few days you cordially ask them to surrender themselves, and their ship. i.e. you force them to sink it and save on PGMs. Or not, and they hand it to you instead, so they can all be rescued. And better to prevent the rescue of a skilled crew or the weapons and sensors. Just make sure nothing can get out to rescue them and they'll have to surrender. Put them on an island and leave them there with food and water.
But if you do sink it, full of hostiles who won’t surrender, mop them up with a JSOW or Harpoon. If they get off the ship hit it with a 2,000 lb LGB in the keel. It may not sink immediately, but any DDG is going to break-up from flex in western pacific swell from there, at some point.
So that can played out with just two VLO missiles expended. Two hits with a LRASM should achieve that, even against an 8,000 ton DDG. Maybe 3 JSM to achieve same. Hopefully the renewed LRASM testing will identify how many will be needed, and answer if they really can achieve that and how to update them if they can't readily get to targets, and knock out ships that efficiently, in the opening 24 hours. If it can, PLAN are done within days, or less.
PLAN are worried enough to put a lot of resources into very large radar panels on their DDGs to give them a chance of detecting LRASM earlier, at high-altitude. But even then this missile is VLO, and VLO is hard to lock with a targeting radar, and the low EO profile may be enough to get them close, without being fired on with a lock. Modular CIWS systems using their own smaller sensors and processing are unlikely to work well in those last seconds. And may not work at all.
So 2 LRASM and the right tactics plus standoff jamming support may be all it takes. i.e. no need for extra numbers to overwhelm defenses, to get two effective hits. LRASM was made for this, and it may actually do that. There may be no effective defense against them in practice. And look at some of the early concept art, it shows LRASM attacking from a steep angle.
There's no slow transonic sea-skimming tactic there. And if the missile did climb from sea level to do that, it would be slowing down in the climb right when you don't want it to slow down. Yeah, so forget doing that. JSOW would also achieve a fast approach with a steep dive and blow a keel or engines, or both with one hit. One weapon could punch through the keel adjacent to the engines and detonate under the keel, like an ADCAP cavity-effect torpedo warhead does. One does that, one hits the C4 nerve-center and a DDG is finished. It'll never fight again, even if it remains afloat.
Even if the ship's defenses hit a LRASM above, at Mach 1.5, in the last 3 seconds, the ship is still going to get hit with high-speed incandescent frag, with 1G acceleration to overcome its new drag properties. Which then makes it far easier for a second missile to get through.
Either missile will knock the ship out of action.
Engine room gone means no electricity.
C4 gone means no weapons, comms, EW, etc.
1 hit takes it out of the fight.
2 hits and not worth recovering or repairing.
3 hits also breaks the keel so eventually sinks it.
So probably no need for more than two missile hits in practice, then rescue/capture the crew and possibly even the ship.
Either way, they're minus a $2 billion DDG for $5 million spent on 2 or 3 of the right VLO weapons.
Posted: 09 Oct 2019, 18:12
The fact that it won't fit in the F-35's weapon bay is disappointing to me, but the fact that it will be available is great news. 
Carry under the wings.