British F-35B to Carry Meteor Missiles from 2024

[franciwzm]

http://defense-update.com/20170421_f35_meteor.html

F35plus meteor_ translates in to ambush killing vs high rcs targets such as su-35...Not sure f22 can do that with amramm, even amraamd.

[hornetfinn]

http://defense-update.com/20170421_f35_meteor.html

F35plus meteor_ translates in to ambush killing vs high rcs targets such as su-35...Not sure f22 can do that with amramm, even amraamd.

Why not with AMRAAM for both F-22 and F-35? We've heard that both are extremely tough to detect at any range even with advanced fighter radars and other sensors. I say both can probably do ambush killing even with AIM-9X or maybe even guns in many cases. If enemy can't detect them, they can maneuver to great firing positions with ease. As both have systems that tell the pilots where enemy can detect them, they have a lot of freedom in maneuvering. I like Meteor missile a lot, but I'm not sure if they are really that much better than AMRAAMs especially for 5th gen fighters. I think it's very good for 4th gen fighters with supposedly longer range and/or end-game energy. But AIM-120D is definitely no slouch either.

[hythelday]

Why not with AMRAAM for both F-22 and F-35?...

Check his comment history, most notably F-22 vs Typhoon thread. "Stealth is useless and is defeated by IRST. Eurofighter is superior to everything. Only super long range Meteor can save F-35".

[franciwzm]

Are you serious? In real world scneario 1 vs 1 frontal engagement is the exception, not the rule; In 4 vs 4 scenario 4 f35 facing 4 su 35, better to score 4 to 0 then 1 or 2 to 0,or even 4 to 1 loss....May be you don't know that lateral aspcect rcs is several orders of magnitude larger even on f22, and thermal signature of f22 anf f35 is comparable to a an f16 and could be sufficient not to let rusckies score a kill from 50km far, but to detect enemy fighters and scare them out and turn back at full speed; if you pretend to compare not only range, but effectiveness of amraam, even amraamd, to meteor, then we are talking about sci-fy...Just to let you know BAE claims that new E-caesar (AESA build on basis of current typhoon captor) will be able to detect frontal aspect of F35 not less then 72km, that means much more in real world scenario as you can never get 100% allineation to frontal aspect... In order to ge good chances of klling launching an amraam you must be well within 50km radius, (more if supercrusing or launched anyway from supersonic speed)...
But if you insist in comparing amraam effectivenss to meteor effectiveness you speak about sci-fy...( it is not only about range) New AESA for typhoon has 200 degrees detection range thx to repositioning antenna: once it will launch meteor, it can confortably turn back; F35 and neither F22 can do that; F22 can exploit amraam max range launching it supercrusing at high quote lets say from 60-70km, but it alaways a risk for example in a scenario where you are outnumbered, let say 1vs 2 or even 2 vs 4, as you continue approaching boogie once you have launched amraam in order to guide it, and if you risk turning back form 40-50km far, your lateral rcs gonna be much higher then frontal one and gonna be detected.

[hythelday]

[XanderCrews]

Lol

[kostas29]

Are you serious? In real world scneario 1 vs 1 frontal engagement is the exception, not the rule; In 4 vs 4 scenario 4 f35 facing 4 su 35, better to score 4 to 0 then 1 or 2 to 0,or even 4 to 1 loss....May be you don't know that lateral aspcect rcs is several orders of magnitude larger even on f22, and thermal signature of f22 anf f35 is comparable to a an f16 and could be sufficient not to let rusckies score a kill from 50km far, but to detect enemy fighters and scare them out and turn back at full speed; if you pretend to compare not only range, but effectiveness of amraam, even amraamd, to meteor, then we are talking about sci-fy...Just to let you know BAE claims that new E-caesar (AESA build on basis of current typhoon captor) will be able to detect frontal aspect of F35 not less then 72km, that means much more in real world scenario as you can never get 100% allineation to frontal aspect... In order to ge good chances of klling launching an amraam you must be well within 50km radius, (more if supercrusing or launched anyway from supersonic speed)...
But if you insist in comparing amraam effectivenss to meteor effectiveness you speak about sci-fy...( it is not only about range) New AESA for typhoon has 200 degrees detection range thx to repositioning antenna: once it will launch meteor, it can confortably turn back; F35 and neither F22 can do that; F22 can exploit amraam max range launching it supercrusing at high quote lets say from 60-70km, but it alaways a risk for example in a scenario where you are outnumbered, let say 1vs 2 or even 2 vs 4, as you continue approaching boogie once you have launched amraam in order to guide it, and if you risk turning back form 40-50km far, your lateral rcs gonna be much higher then frontal one and gonna be detected.

I disagree with many of your points

"BAE claims that new E-caesar (AESA build on basis of current typhoon captor) will be able to detect frontal aspect of F35 not less then 72km"
do you have a reference? it sounds impossible to me

"amraam you must be well within 50km radius"
AMRAAM D launched from an F35 flying high has a much greater range that that.

"New AESA for typhoon has 200 degrees detection range thx to repositioning antenna"
reference


Meteor must be better than AMRAAM if launched from low altitudes. If launched from high altitudes rocket propulsion missiles take full advantage of the lower drag of higher altitude ( they climb up). Ramjet powered missiles need to remain within denser atmosphere (lower altitude) because they need the oxygen. Therefore, it is more likely that AMRAAM D is more capable than Meteor when launched from high altitudes. If that was not the case, I think we can safely assume that the americans would have acquired the Meteor as well

Of course, we are not in a position to know the exact differences in performance between the two missiles, because this is top secret info.

[SpudmanWP]

Keep in mind that BAE has zero actual knowledge of the F-35's RAM, RAS, & RCS and certainly no knowledge of it's ESM since BAE(UK) [creator of E-Caesar] is legally separated from BAE(US) [creator of the F-35's ESM].

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

Also, WE may not know the lateral RCS of the F-35 , but the F-35 ITSELF does and informs the pilot.

[SpudmanWP]

Also, WE may not know the lateral RCS of the F-35 , but the F-35 ITSELF does and informs the pilot.

Only in a general sense and since an E-CAESAR has never had the chance to get an F-35 in front of it, they are making sh*t up.

[bigjku]

Also, WE may not know the lateral RCS of the F-35 , but the F-35 ITSELF does and informs the pilot.

Only in a general sense and since an E-CAESAR has never had the chance to get an F-35 in front of it, they are making sh*t up.

I am sure it's a great radar. After all it's all the way to testing phase in the air for its scan and search and track. And it will test its air to ground mode at a time defined with certainty as "later". I am sure it's electronic warfare capabilities are right up there with the F-35's radar too.

The thing is a big joke. Has anyone other than Kuwait actually placed a firm order to have the radar installed? I have seen they signed a development contract and there are constant P3E and P4E references being tossed about. But has any partner actually allocated money to upgrade their jets? If so I can never find it.

Like air to ground capability it all comes to Eurofighter very late. By the time they can actually buy it partner nations will be seeing that their EF are dead men walking against F-35's and any money will be funneled into making them able to act as spear throwers for the F-35 by upgrading communication links. The radar is the same story as the EF itself just being retold. It's too late, too expensive and largely irrelevant to the future of aerial combat.

[blindpilot]

... the F-35 ITSELF does and informs the pilot.

Only in a general sense ...

Again because this stuff is classified, everyone is blowing some smoke ... however one should not assume that the F-35 just looks in a spreadsheet for some threat data. It might actually have a dynamic RF environment evaluation process ... and it might actually "Know" real time "ITSELF"
... so we can't assert that it's only in a "general sense" either.

The test would be simple. See who shows up for a "live ordinance, 1 v 1 weapons free" test. I know the F-35 would be there.

... at least I think since "I can't see it for sure ... and OMG where do you think he is up here? ..... do you think maybe he's not here? ... or is he..?" The Psychological factor alone would answer almost all the questions. Ask the SU-35s who are not escorting the SU-22s in Syria, while the F-22 pilots sit in the O-Club drinking beer and watching baseball .... or are they?

Just sayin,
BP

[botsing]

LOL

Perfect timing!

[geforcerfx]

Apparently he thinks the F-35 and F-22 carry the AIM-120A (not possible) and not the C7 and D