F-16.net

Dragon029 wrote:As far as I'm aware, the current pylons for the F-35 can't be detached - because it uses an airframe-internal pneumatic ejection system though, it would arguably be easier to develop ejectable pylons for the F-35. The biggest issue however would be the ability to successfully clear them from the aircraft, without damaging the mounting points themselves via excessive ejection forces. At least with a drop-tank however, you can drop the tanks and pylons at the same time, with easier release dynamics.

"13 Sep 2014 06:13
The Israelis are going to pay for it i believe with the F-22 having done the ground breaking work. http://aviationweek.com/defense/israel- ... r-fly-f-35

"To further extend the F-35’s range, Lockheed Martin is exploring an innovative concept from Israel, of using unique drop tanks, developed by Elbit Systems Cyclone. Designed in a similar concept to the F-22 under-wing drop tanks, these tanks, each containing 425 gal. of fuel, will use special attachment pylons that would completely separate from the wing, regaining full stealth capability after separation. An additional 900 gal. of fuel will significantly extend the F-35I range, enabling the IAF to operate its new stealth fighter at the “outer ring” of operation without mandatory aerial refueling."

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26236&p=278417&hilit=Israel+tanks#p278417

Israel Will Be First Non-U.S. Customer To Fly F-35
26 Jun 2013 David Eshel

"...“Israel will become the first non-U.S. operator of the F-35 in the world,” said Steve O’Bryan, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for F-35 program integration and business development in an interview at the Paris air show. The first F-35I combat squadron is expected to achieve initial operational capability in 2018.

Eight other countries have already committed to the program with firm contracts.

“The F-35 fighters going into service with these users will use different initial versions that will be upgraded later into the latest version, as it becomes available,” O’Bryan said. That mean F-35s will be tailored to individual nations, he says.

“Specific capabilities developed for certain users will remain exclusive, and open to other users only with the original user’s consent. For example, the software blocks pertaining to the Norwegian anti-ship missile will not be available to other F-35 operators except Norway, unless it decides to sell those missiles to one of the F-35 users. The same goes to the Rafael Spice 1000. Similarly, the advanced electronic warfare, data links and specific software modes developed for the Israeli air force will remain unique to Israel and not delivered to any other user. These capabilities will also be fully integrated with the aircraft capabilities, adhering to the stealth characteristics of the aircraft, particularly, at specific apertures cleared for the Israeli systems integration in the lower fuselage and leading edge,” he said....

...“With the F-35 Israel is expected to receive the AIM-9X short-range air/air missile (AAM) and the Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM Beyond Visual Range (BVR) AAM,” O’Bryan added. The F-35 currently carries the Raytheon AIM-9X Block at the outboard under-wing stations, in non-stealth configuration, as the current Block I missiles cannot be carried internally. This shortcoming will be corrected in Block II, which is to follow soon....

...In August 2012 Lockheed Martin received a $206 million award from the U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command, covering the development and integration of Israeli systems in the F-35A. Part of a larger package, the integration support agreement with Lockheed Martin covers a $450 million program to enhance Electronic Warfare (EW) equipment on the F-35, and integrate Israeli-unique systems beginning in 2016.

“The advantage of this F-35 for the Israel air force is not about higher performance or a specific weapon capacity, but the ability to understand the battlespace, identify, locate targets from standoff range and neutralize them before being engaged,” Brig. Gen. Hagi Topolanski, Chief of Air Staff and Deputy Israeli Air Force Commander, told Aviation Week in a recent interview.

“These capabilities are meaningful in dealing with modern fighter aircraft and advanced SAMs. While the F-35 has its limitations, it can take on and win against any threat currently available in-theater. Its ability to independently collect, assess and process a battlespace situational picture, and strike those targets by itself, from standoff range, is providing a qualitative edge over anything the enemy can confront with, in the foreseeable future.”

Israel insisted upon a number of requirements throughout the procurement negotiations on the F-35I. Those included the adaptation of the baseline F-35A including all its systems, to the Israeli air force’s operational environment, which will require some necessary additions.

“Our F-35I will be equipped with our specific networks, armament and electronic warfare, among them the Spice autonomous EO guided weapon. It will also carry the AIM-9X2 air-to-air missile, which will become the first platform in the IAF to employ this advanced air-to-air missile. We also plan to continue and pursue the development of future air-to-air missiles; we are still evaluating the cost/performance trade-off between a common air-to-air and air-to-ground missile and a dedicated AAM design,” Topolanski explained. “Assuming the F-35 will offer the capabilities it is planned to deliver, it will bring a new dimension to air battles as we know today.”

One of the advantages of the F-35 is the aircraft’s ability to fly long-range missions with internal weapons, accelerate faster and maintain higher speed, compared to current F16s or F-15s or any of the opposing force combat aircraft (flying with internal fuel).

To further extend the F-35’s range, Lockheed Martin is exploring an innovative concept from Israel, of using unique drop tanks, developed by Elbit Systems Cyclone. Designed in a similar concept to the F-22 under-wing drop tanks, these tanks, each containing 425 gal. of fuel, will use special attachment pylons that would completely separate from the wing, regaining full stealth capability after separation. An additional 900 gal. of fuel will significantly extend the F-35I range, enabling the IAF to operate its new stealth fighter at the “outer ring” of operation without mandatory aerial refueling."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/israel- ... r-fly-f-35

KamenRiderBlade wrote:Leave it to the Israeli's to come up with new ways of innovating on fuel tanks.

Aren't they the only ones to put the most number of fuel tanks on a F-16?

sferrin wrote:

KamenRiderBlade wrote:Leave it to the Israeli's to come up with new ways of innovating on fuel tanks.

Aren't they the only ones to put the most number of fuel tanks on a F-16?

The only carry 3 tanks BUT they can carry 600 gallon tanks on the wings.

spazsinbad wrote:

For the record again:

Israel Will Be First Non-U.S. Customer To Fly F-35
26 Jun 2013 David Eshel


Designed in a similar concept to the F-22 under-wing drop tanks, these tanks, each containing 425 gal. of fuel, will use special attachment pylons that would completely separate from the wing, regaining full stealth capability after separation. "

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/israel- ... r-fly-f-35

archeman wrote:

spazsinbad wrote:

For the record again:

Israel Will Be First Non-U.S. Customer To Fly F-35
26 Jun 2013 David Eshel


Designed in a similar concept to the F-22 under-wing drop tanks, these tanks, each containing 425 gal. of fuel, will use special attachment pylons that would completely separate from the wing, regaining full stealth capability after separation. "

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/israel- ... r-fly-f-35

I don't have the screenshot handy, but didn't we see earlier that there are small 'fillers spots' under the wing when the pylon is freshly removed that are 'plugged' by maintenance personnel. If yes, then an ejected pylon would not exactly put you back to 'full stealth' but probably far better than with the empty pylon hanging there.

Possible Revised F-35 Could Make It for Israel Easier to Attack Iran
25 Jun 2015 Tzvi Ben-Gedalyahu

"Lockheed-Martin is studying an Israel request for a longer flight range that would make refueling easier.

The manufacturer of the F-35 stealth attack plane, which Israel might use to attack Iran, is examining an Israeli request to extend the flight range by 30 percent, Amir Rapaport of the Israel Defense website reported Thursday.

Approximately 1,000 miles (1,500 kilometers) separate Israel and Iran, and the current F-35 is designed to fly approximately the same distance without refueling.

The IDF has asked the range to be extended to 1,500 miles, according to Rapaport....

...Israel Defense noted that special versions of the F-15 and F-16 include additional fuel tanks, but that option is less practical for the F-35. Even adding fuel capacity by 30 percent would make the airplane larger, challenge engineers to retain the F-35’s stealth capabilities.

IAF teams reportedly are working with Lockheed-Martin in Texas before the first F-35s are due to arrive in Israel towards the end of 2016.

As in the previous planes, Israel has introduced several improvements for the stealth fighter.
Rapaport wrote that sources said:

Israel will significantly improve the aircraft as it once did with the F-15 and F-16...."

Source: http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breakin ... 015/06/25/

spazsinbad wrote::...Israel will significantly improve the aircraft as it once did with the F-15 and F-16...."..

spazsinbad wrote:Reading the article says this: "...Approximately 1,000 miles (1,500 kilometers) separate Israel and Iran..."

popcorn wrote:Just have their 707 aerial tankers top off their tanks on the way in and meet them on the return trip.

delvo wrote:

popcorn wrote:Just have their 707 aerial tankers top off their tanks on the way in and meet them on the return trip.

Over what country?

Eyeing Iran, Israel Readies for Stealth Strike Fighter
05 Sep 2015 Barbara Opall-Rome

"...In interviews here and in the United States, program officials said prime contractor Lockheed Martin, at Washington’s behest, is working with state-owned Rafael to adapt locally built air-to-ground weaponry for the belly of the plane.

Similarly, the contractor is assessing Israeli concepts for external wing tanks to augment the 18,000 pounds of fuel carried internally by the F-35.

“We’re studying proof of concept trade studies on carrying extra fuel,” a Lockheed Martin program official told Defense News. “After you own the air space, you won’t have to worry about stealth. So then you can add external tanks because you won’t be worried about being detected.”

Israeli defense and industry sources said that ultimately they hope to develop F-35 conformal fuel tanks that are stealthy. Nevertheless, they say it is well worth the effort given that it will more than double the range with very low risk of detection.

“It’s short-sighted to expect that all the smart people working here on conformal fuel tanks will not manage to make them stealthy," the IAF officer said...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /71608464/

Approximately 1,000 miles (1,500 kilometers) separate Israel and Iran, and the current F-35 is designed to fly approximately the same distance without refueling.

The IDF has asked the range to be extended to 1,500 miles, according to Rapaport.

Lockheed Martin and the IAF are in negotiations to examine the possibility of extending the flight range of the Israeli version of the future fighter aircraft F-35 by 30%.

...

The current flight range of the F-35 stands at approximately 1150 kilometers (larger than the range of the F-15 and F-16). Extending the flight range may allow the IAF to action also against Iranian targets. Nevertheless, even the longer flight range (1,500 km) would not allow the aircraft to reach Iran and back without refueling, since Iranians targets are located at a range of at least 1000 km.

"['alloycowboy']: Just did a quick calculation and a pair of 426 gallon tanks gives following increase in range.
F=35A 31% (1572 nautical miles range drag neglected)

F=35B 43% (1287 nautical miles range drag neglected)

F-35C 29% (1 806 nautical miles range drag neglected)"

Israel reaffirms plans to take F-35 before USAF declares it operational
28 Nov 2011 Alon Ben-David, Aviation Week & Space Technology

"Israel stands behind the F-35.
The Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter program may face a lot of uncertainty in the U.S., but the Israeli air force (IAF) is fiercely rejecting any suggestion that it explore other alternatives to the new fighter jet and is closing around plans to take deliveries of the F-35 “at the earliest date possible.” The IAF is scheduled to receive its first F-35s for training in the U.S. in late 2016, with plans to deploy them in Israel the following year. “We will deliver Israel a fully capable Block-3 F-35A,” Dave Scott, Lockheed Martin’s F-35 business development director tells Aviation Week. Yet, with the U.S. Air Force declaring that the JSF will become operational only in 2018, it is not clear whether the first aircraft for the IAF will have full JSF software or will only allow for flight training.

Moreover, unlike most program partners, who plan to procure a limited number of aircraft from the low-rate initial production (LRIP) line while deferring massive procurement during serial production, Israel’s first squadron of 19 F-35s will be fully procured out of the LRIP line. Five aircraft in LRIP 8 are to be delivered in 2016, seven in LRIP 9 in 2017 and seven more in 2018 out of LRIP 10.

“Procuring an LRIP aircraft is like buying a prototype,” one senior Israeli defense source tells Aviation Week. “You have to assume that these aircraft will suffer from childhood diseases and will require future changes.” “It will not be different from the F-15As that Israel received in 1976,” notes a senior air force officer.

“They also had some problems of an early version but provided Israel with a critical qualitative edge over its neighbors, just like we need now with the F-35.”

Israel is still negotiating the contract for developing the unique capabilities it requires for its first F- 35 squadron under a $2.75 billion budget. Those include the installment of Israel’s Blue Cedar C4I system, as well as rewiring to accommodate Israeli electronic warfare (EW) systems in Apertures Band 2 and 5 in the belly and wings of the JSF. Israel also is planning to install an external EW pod on its F-35s.

Additional Israeli requirements, such as installing Rafael’s Python-5 air-to-air missile and Spice air-to-ground bomb in the F-35s internal weapon bay were deferred as costs of adjusting the aircraft and weapons to fit together were enormous. Israel also postponed its requirement to add a 600-gal. external fuel tank. The final contract for the first F-35 squadron should be inked by mid-2012.

As with much of Israel’s defense spending plan, developments in Iran are believed to be a consideration. Reportedly, Israeli leadership considers 2012 as the last window of opportunity to stop Iran’s suspected ambitions to develop nuclear weapons. But if the IAF is sent to launch a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities then, it is clear the F-35 would only reach Israel after the showdown, which many experts believe could trigger a regional war.

Yet, the IAF persistently refuses to consider buying a different fighter like Boeing’s F-15s in the interim to bolster its capabilities despite repeated pleas from other defense officials. “The only potential fighter is the F-15 and it costs almost like an F-35,” said the IAF officer. “In any case, even if we place an order for new F-15s today they will arrive no earlier than the F-35.”

Instead, the IAF will upgrade its fleets of F-15A/B/C/Ds and Lockheed Martin F-16C/Ds to improve their capabilities and extend their lifespan. It will be forced to decommission its aging F-16A/Bs, as maintenance costs are skyrocketing. While the IAF is eager to start earmarking the budget for its next F-35 squadron, Israel is not ready to commit to another buy with uncertainty surrounding the future of U.S military aid to the country.

Still, beckoning Israel is Lockheed Martin’s carrot in the form of proposed contracts for Israeli industry in the F-35 program, totaling $4 billion, and the stick of canceling them. Elbit Systems’ share, in developing and manufacturing the helmet-mounted displays for the F-35, appears secure, unless the company cannot overcome the technical difficulties that recently emerged during development. Lockheed’s suggested contract with Israel Aerospace Industries — to manufacture 811 outer wings for the JSF — is more in jeopardy.

“Clearly we will not start a production line at IAI to manufacture wings for only the 19 Israeli aircraft,” said Scott. “Our proposal has the prospect of more than 15 years of IAI participation in the program.”

Sourc: http://blog.daum.net/trent/8213146

neptune wrote:

spazsinbad wrote::...Israel will significantly improve the aircraft as it once did with the F-15 and F-16...."..

..as they did with the F-4 and the A-4..

"...Cyclone also is in the process of developing, in cooperation with Lockheed Martin, a new type of EFT."
http://www.sibat.mod.gov.il/Industries/ ... ts/Defense Directory 2015_16.pdf (43Mb)

When Norway decided to acquire F-35 as a new combat aircraft, the requirement was that the new combat aircraft should be able to stay in the air for at least 4.5 hours per trip. In an internal defense memorandum, the Air Force states that it is hardly realistic with more than two hours.

magitsu wrote:This Norwegian article seems suspect. 2 hour flight time?!?

When Norway decided to acquire F-35 as a new combat aircraft, the requirement was that the new combat aircraft should be able to stay in the air for at least 4.5 hours per trip. In an internal defense memorandum, the Air Force states that it is hardly realistic with more than two hours.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

This is less suspect, but quite interesting about what the chute option might entail.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

wrightwing wrote:2 hours is false.

magitsu wrote:

wrightwing wrote:2 hours is false.

Obviously. Just trying to find a proper source to a more accurate number.

magitsu wrote:This Norwegian article seems suspect. 2 hour flight time?!?

When Norway decided to acquire F-35 as a new combat aircraft, the requirement was that the new combat aircraft should be able to stay in the air for at least 4.5 hours per trip. In an internal defense memorandum, the Air Force states that it is hardly realistic with more than two hours.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

This is less suspect, but quite interesting about what the chute option might entail.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=