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Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 03:36
by Corsair1963
India seeks local warplanes as overseas purchase plan stalls India plans to switch to locally-made fighter jets, two years after asking global companies to submit proposals to supply 114 combat aircraft

By Sudhi Ranjan Sen

India plans to switch to locally-made fighter jets, two years after asking global companies to submit proposals to supply 114 combat aircraft in the world’s biggest warplane contract. The country’s air force is finalizing plans to i...


https://www.deccanherald.com/business/i ... Qn3aj61Gu8


CHINA AND PAKISTAN MUST BE DANCING IN THE STREET RIGHT ABOUT NOW............. :shock:

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 14:42
by mixelflick
Not necessarily.... IF the buy affords them to have cash left over elsewhere.

While less capable than most foreign jets being evaluated, the Tejas is said to have its strengths. Low observable airframe, ease of maintenance, reliable engine and high sortie rate. If they can deliver that economically, it'll go a long way toward giving them a nice medium strike platform, with some limited self defence capabilities and most importantly - numbers. Where the IAF is woefully under-served is in having even a rudimentary stealth capability.

I think the Indians know J-20's vs. SU-30MKI's (however much they're upgraded), isn't going to end well. Further, China is fielding at least one (maybe 2) stealth fighters, and is known to be working on 2 stealth bombers. Add to that fact they're working with PAK on co-developing its own medium fighters, and... that's a problem. To this, India has.... no answer. That's the much bigger problem, IMO...

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 18:08
by milosh
Corsair1963 wrote:India seeks local warplanes as overseas purchase plan stalls India plans to switch to locally-made fighter jets, two years after asking global companies to submit proposals to supply 114 combat aircraft

By Sudhi Ranjan Sen

India plans to switch to locally-made fighter jets, two years after asking global companies to submit proposals to supply 114 combat aircraft in the world’s biggest warplane contract. The country’s air force is finalizing plans to i...


https://www.deccanherald.com/business/i ... Qn3aj61Gu8


CHINA AND PAKISTAN MUST BE DANCING IN THE STREET RIGHT ABOUT NOW............. :shock:



MMCA was 4gen fighter competiton, so buying noticeable more Tejas then Eurofighter, S.Hornet, MiG-35, Viper or Gripen isn't bad decision at all. In fact if Tejas wasn't so problematic MMCA wouldn't happen at all.

There is one more important reason to get as many Tejas. Airfields. IAF don't have Rafales and Su-30 close to Pakistan because those fighters logistical demands aren't small. Both are quite expensive so HAS is must have and both need decent runaway.

MiG-29 and Tejas on other hand are design to have low logistic demand so they can be operated from rough FOB.

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 23:25
by ovod
milosh wrote:
MiG-29 and Tejas on other hand are design to have low logistic demand so they can be operated from rough FOB.


MiG-29 has a high logistical demand, maybe even higher than Rafale. And who says that aircraft based near the border with Pakistan need to operate from rough airfields?

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 23:40
by Corsair1963
milosh wrote:

MMCA was 4gen fighter competiton, so buying noticeable more Tejas then Eurofighter, S.Hornet, MiG-35, Viper or Gripen isn't bad decision at all. In fact if Tejas wasn't so problematic MMCA wouldn't happen at all.

There is one more important reason to get as many Tejas. Airfields. IAF don't have Rafales and Su-30 close to Pakistan because those fighters logistical demands aren't small. Both are quite expensive so HAS is must have and both need decent runaway.

MiG-29 and Tejas on other hand are design to have low logistic demand so they can be operated from rough FOB.


The current LCA MK IA is lacking in range / performance compare to most existing 4/4.5 Generation Fighters. While, the MK II / MWF is nothing but a pipe dream. As it would require a major redesign and take another 20 years to develop, test, and get into service. You really think the IAF can wait until 2040 for the LCA MK II???

Honestly, even buying the MMRCA 2.0 is questionable. As it will never match future Chinese J-20's and/or J-31's. :shock:

Time the Indian Leadership got serious and came up with a viable plan.


"IMHO"

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 23:43
by Corsair1963
ovod wrote:
milosh wrote:
MiG-29 and Tejas on other hand are design to have low logistic demand so they can be operated from rough FOB.


MiG-29 has a high logistical demand, maybe even higher than Rafale. And who says that aircraft based near the border with Pakistan need to operate from rough airfields?



What happens if China provides Pakistan with J-20's and/or J-31's around 2030. That or Pakistan allows China to base PLAAF Stealth Fighters on Pakistani Airfields???

:|

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2020, 23:46
by Corsair1963
It's very plausible that the PAF (Pakistani Air Force) could have a mix of say F-16's, JF-17's and J-31's post 2030. :|

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 01:45
by XanderCrews
Looks like Tejas out-Gripened the Gripen. :mrgreen: maybe the performance isn't as good, but you know what? its "good enough", and its cheaper, uses an F414 and is certainly "made in india"


Gripen NG loses another key sales opportunity

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 02:20
by Corsair1963
XanderCrews wrote:Looks like Tejas out-Gripened the Gripen. :mrgreen: maybe the performance isn't as good, but you know what? its "good enough", and its cheaper, uses an F414 and is certainly "made in india"


Gripen NG loses another key sales opportunity



Your missing the point. If, you think either (LCA or Gripen) will be good enough.... :?

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 04:30
by XanderCrews
Corsair1963 wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:Looks like Tejas out-Gripened the Gripen. :mrgreen: maybe the performance isn't as good, but you know what? its "good enough", and its cheaper, uses an F414 and is certainly "made in india"


Gripen NG loses another key sales opportunity



Your missing the point. If, you think either (LCA or Gripen) will be good enough.... :?



Not saying it Is I'm saying "good enough" is the rhetorical echo when it comes to fans of crappy light fighters

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 06:58
by Corsair1963
XanderCrews wrote:

Not saying it Is I'm saying "good enough" is the rhetorical echo when it comes to fans of crappy light fighters



Honestly, not a fan a small lightweight fighters either....


Regardless, making a case for any 4th Generation Fighter (India) vs a nation with 5th Generation Fighters. (China) Is like saying my Flag Football Team. Could beat the New England Patriots....

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 13:04
by sferrin
Grim today, perhaps. Better in the long run. They need to learn how to build their own aircraft.

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 16:23
by disconnectedradical
Corsair1963 wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:

Not saying it Is I'm saying "good enough" is the rhetorical echo when it comes to fans of crappy light fighters



Honestly, not a fan a small lightweight fighters either....


Regardless, making a case for any 4th Generation Fighter (India) vs a nation with 5th Generation Fighters. (China) Is like saying my Flag Football Team. Could beat the New England Patriots....


What is India supposed to do then? Sit and do nothing? They shouldn't be getting F-35s any time soon, not a close enough ally for that.

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 18:37
by milosh
ovod wrote:
milosh wrote:
MiG-29 and Tejas on other hand are design to have low logistic demand so they can be operated from rough FOB.


MiG-29 has a high logistical demand, maybe even higher than Rafale. And who says that aircraft based near the border with Pakistan need to operate from rough airfields?


Rafale is noticeable better in service life but that isn't same as logistic demand for FOB (forward operating base).

You ask why it need to operate from rough air stips? Because there isn't many normal air strips near Kashmir so what you expect Pakistan will attack first? Them. So IAF will be force to use damaged air strips or FOB with not so quality air strips.

IAF doesn't have Su-30 nor Rafale near Kashmir for that reason. I don't think they have any air field with HAS in that region.

@Corsair1963

MMCA didn't had range requirement at all. MMCA happened only because Tejas development slowed down. That is why you have so many different fighters becuase IAF didn't really knew what it want, M2000 would probable be best backup option but France was in process of killing M2000 to boost Rafale

With Tejas Mk1 is more less done there isn't need for MMCA anymore.

Stealth fighter isn't important as long as Pakistan don't decide to get one. J-31 isn't no where near complition and last news doesn't sound good at all for J-31, it look like Shenyang will start work on new fighter or they will heavily modified J-31. Pakistan getting J-20 isn't realistic at all.

Re: Very grim news for the Indian Air Force

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2020, 01:47
by Corsair1963
milosh wrote:
@Corsair1963

MMCA didn't had range requirement at all. MMCA happened only because Tejas development slowed down. That is why you have so many different fighters becuase IAF didn't really knew what it want, M2000 would probable be best backup option but France was in process of killing M2000 to boost Rafale

With Tejas Mk1 is more less done there isn't need for MMCA anymore.

Stealth fighter isn't important as long as Pakistan don't decide to get one. J-31 isn't no where near complition and last news doesn't sound good at all for J-31, it look like Shenyang will start work on new fighter or they will heavily modified J-31. Pakistan getting J-20 isn't realistic at all.


Laughable the LCA like most small fighters offers poor payload vs range. As a matter of fact the LCA is basically just a "point defense fighter". Which, offers very little in overall capability. Hell, most 4th Generation Fighters are more than a match for the LCA. (MK I or MK IA) That is just the cold hard truth....

As for the J-31 the development is said to be progressing well and just a few years off from entering service. My guess is the odds of Pakistan acquiring are likely good. As it should be affordable and China alone has considerable reason to provide at least a limited number to Pakistan. Which, would tie up Indian Defenses on two FRONTS.

This is the whole conundrum for India. As post 2030 she likely will have to face opposing Stealth Fighters on two fronts. Which, she has had a very contentious relationship with since the founding of the country.

Yet, the Indian Air Force has no plan to field a Stealth Fighter of her own in the foreseeable future! (next 20 years) :shock: